What's the point of the release version? [rant]

Ugh. You folks make this sound much more complicated than it is. Just play the game and chill. Use whichever version you want. Both have problems right now... probably because of the GIANT ENGINE OVERHAUL. And yes, they are actively using you as guinea pigs.

And whether you agree with it or not, beta is just that, it's a test branch. Yes, it's very much active right now, because of how recently all this stuff kicked off and they're in damage control overdrive right now. Stop freaking out and trying to chase the latest releases just so you can bitch about them.

And every second person needs to stop claiming to be a software engineer and touting how 'they' do it. Nobody cares. It'll get done, sooner or later, one way or another, on their own schedule. They've been doing this for twenty years, whether it makes sense to you or is 'standard' I'm sure they have a reason for doing things the way they do that makes sense to them, at least, which is all that matters. Don't be so petulant.

The world will not end because you had to download the test branch to get the Hornet. The world will not end because of bugs and other issues. ED will not go out of business because somebody's poato can't run it anymore, because you disagree with their business strategy, or or or.

People have been very poorly conditioned by social media to deal with any kind of adversity @@

Right. Both version have problems right now. In my point of view it took indeed to much time in the past with Alpha and Beta Versions. We had that discussion already and there is something to it. The stable version is often a bit "far behind" the actual beta and you could get the impression that it´s not a "step by step" development. Don´t get me wrong. I don´t plead for a faster development, but to generally finish the existing beta first before moving to the next beta developments.

This also acconts to airplanes. For example, if you look at the Viggen (beta since late 2016) you could get a little bit disappointed when a couple new beta or early access airplanes are announced while the existing beta airplanes are still not in final stage.

I wholeheartedly agree. I wish there would be just one DCS install with optional patches flagged as beta or release. I miss the old times when patches were just separate downloadable exe files and I could install whatever version I wanted to use.

Ugh. You folks make this sound much more complicated than it is. Just play the game and chill. Use whichever version you want. Both have problems right now... probably because of the GIANT ENGINE OVERHAUL. And yes, they are actively using you as guinea pigs.

 

And whether you agree with it or not, beta is just that, it's a test branch. Yes, it's very much active right now, because of how recently all this stuff kicked off and they're in damage control overdrive right now. Stop freaking out and trying to chase the latest releases just so you can bitch about them.

 

And every second person needs to stop claiming to be a software engineer and touting how 'they' do it. Nobody cares. It'll get done, sooner or later, one way or another, on their own schedule. They've been doing this for twenty years, whether it makes sense to you or is 'standard' I'm sure they have a reason for doing things the way they do that makes sense to them, at least, which is all that matters. Don't be so petulant.

 

The world will not end because you had to download the test branch to get the Hornet. The world will not end because of bugs and other issues. ED will not go out of business because somebody's poato can't run it anymore, because you disagree with their business strategy, or or or.

 

People have been very poorly conditioned by social media to deal with any kind of adversity @@

AHAHAHAHAHA!:D:D:D I think the OP's comments were based on the fact he or she was unaware that beta build is supposed to be used for testing. As a result, it gets fiddled with more often. So it naturally will get the pre-release aircrafts first.

Ugh. You folks make this sound much more complicated than it is. Just play the game and chill. Use whichever version you want. Both have problems right now... probably because of the GIANT ENGINE OVERHAUL. And yes, they are actively using you as guinea pigs.

 

And whether you agree with it or not, beta is just that, it's a test branch. Yes, it's very much active right now, because of how recently all this stuff kicked off and they're in damage control overdrive right now. Stop freaking out and trying to chase the latest releases just so you can bitch about them.

 

And every second person needs to stop claiming to be a software engineer and touting how 'they' do it. Nobody cares. It'll get done, sooner or later, one way or another, on their own schedule. They've been doing this for twenty years, whether it makes sense to you or is 'standard' I'm sure they have a reason for doing things the way they do that makes sense to them, at least, which is all that matters. Don't be so petulant.

 

The world will not end because you had to download the test branch to get the Hornet. The world will not end because of bugs and other issues. ED will not go out of business because somebody's poato can't run it anymore, because you disagree with their business strategy, or or or.

 

People have been very poorly conditioned by social media to deal with any kind of adversity @@

First off, why the passive-agressive condescending tone?

With your statement, I assume that you have absolutely never bitched about anything in your life that isn't related to your area of expertise?

For example, suppose that you are... A surgeon... I would assume you never express an opinion on something that isn't medical related. How could you comment on, say, cars....? After all, you're not a car engineer or something.

Ugh. You folks make this sound much more complicated than it is. Just play the game and chill. Use whichever version you want. Both have problems right now... probably because of the GIANT ENGINE OVERHAUL. And yes, they are actively using you as guinea pigs.

 

And whether you agree with it or not, beta is just that, it's a test branch. Yes, it's very much active right now, because of how recently all this stuff kicked off and they're in damage control overdrive right now. Stop freaking out and trying to chase the latest releases just so you can bitch about them.

 

And every second person needs to stop claiming to be a software engineer and touting how 'they' do it. Nobody cares. It'll get done, sooner or later, one way or another, on their own schedule. They've been doing this for twenty years, whether it makes sense to you or is 'standard' I'm sure they have a reason for doing things the way they do that makes sense to them, at least, which is all that matters. Don't be so petulant.

 

The world will not end because you had to download the test branch to get the Hornet. The world will not end because of bugs and other issues. ED will not go out of business because somebody's poato can't run it anymore, because you disagree with their business strategy, or or or.

 

People have been very poorly conditioned by social media to deal with any kind of adversity @@

alright mister . I will simplify it for you. I understand what beta stand for. And yes I do work in the field and I will allow myself to chime in. I would never chime in about how realistic the flight model of plane is because I don't have real hands on experience in that field, but software dev yes I will.

What I am saying is look the release is not stable for multiplayer and also is quite unstable for single player and very optimized, before you look at implementing new stuff please make the release stable or your just adding more failure factor and making the release cycle longer.

I love their product and I understand yeah they are having a challenging time and yes they will fix it. I just wished they would have prioritized stabilizing the 2.5 release first

I pushed some buttons :p Brusque and condescending is my cruise control setting, don't take it personal ;)

@DataX

As with any early access product completion is TBA. Even if a product is considered 'complete' it gets broken, sometimes severely. I have EA games in my Steam library that have been EA for years *cough*DayZ*cough* That's the risk you take. This phenomenon has existed enough years now, I'd think people would have learned by now :p

@Cunctator

We do have two completely separate branches, the one that is offered by default and then the one you have to specifically look up to download. It's not THAT confusing. Even before when had 1.5, 2.0 and test branches for both (four versions, five if you count Steam) it was difficult to get other than the release without deliberately trying to get them. Some people still did, via reading just enough to be dangerous without actually knowing what they're doing.

@sylosis and nekhron

By all means, weigh in, including about flight models. My objection is to people assuming false equivalencies, though. An example

Most 'software engineers' in my experience work kn web pages, databases, PoS systems, company backends, etc. While potentially a complicated endeavour, you're talking about relatively restricted systems being used by specific people, on specific hardware, for specific purposes, in specific manners. It's the software equivalent of a 'clean room'.

Now take any game, or even a mobile app, and you're asking to interface with hundreds of phones or thousands of PC hardware combinations each of which is a potential failure point. Add in the inherent complexities of DCS, each of which is a potential failure point. Add in the human game variable, wherein you have people doing things in every conceivable order under every conceivable condition especially ones that are illogical (the game crashes for you, but only when inverted under 20ft, and ONLY when crossing the intersection of Fifth and Main... fascinating)

My point is database preparation is not equal to DCS, or any game development, they're different beasts, kind of like the difference between bureaucracy and real life. Additionally, they have an extremely limited pool of test systems, even if they bring in dozens of closed alpha/beta testers, they cannot even remotely test every system. You know what can though? 400,000 keyboard mashing neckbeards like us =)

2.5 was a very large overhaul that was let loose, perhaps a bit early (likely due to said 400,000 neckbeards demanding access so they can ostensibly help test, even though 380,000 of them will immediately go 'wtf ED??11!!!1 Why u game so brok?!1!')

If they're taking a bit updating it's probably to insure all major issues are resolved in the next patch. 2.5 DOES indeed work, despite the e-rage, I've already fired it up. Yes, it has issues, but it is suitable for tinkering in the meantime. The next big patch should resolve most issues, then ''stable'' will be the version of choice once more.

If it comes right down to it, there are thousands of other games to play while they fix DCS, so nobody is out much except a bit of inconvenience.

They've been doing this for twenty years, as I said, they don't need forum monkeys telling them how to run their company. They're doing something right or they'd have gone bellyup nineteen years ago.

-edit

Another noteworthy difference

Messing up Chase Bank or Boeing computer systems can cause a national catastrophe. Breaking somebody's game fir a few days/weeks is completely irrelevant. So, no, game devs don't use lab environment 100% failure tested procedures. Because that would be stupid for a video game.

I installed the open beta when it was first offered. As soon as I learned my favorite MP server had switched to the "Release" version because of all the issues caused by updates to the Open Beta, I downloaded the Release version so could fly on the server. I usually use the OB to fly solo and test the new updates. Having the Release version has yielded an additional benefit; the release version still has deferred shading and HDR. When I get frustrated by changes to the OB version such as the locked deferred shading or SSAA, I can simply open the Release version and use it. When I want to fly the Hornet in the Persian Gulf, without having to wait for it to be available on the Release version, I can open the Open Beta. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and pros and cons. The Release version is the locked first OB version. I'm breathlessly awaiting the next locked OB is downloaded onto the Release version.

I pushed some buttons :p Brusque and condescending is my cruise control setting, don't take it personal ;)

 

@DataX

As with any early access product completion is TBA. Even if a product is considered 'complete' it gets broken, sometimes severely. I have EA games in my Steam library that have been EA for years *cough*DayZ*cough* That's the risk you take. This phenomenon has existed enough years now, I'd think people would have learned by now :p

 

@Cunctator

We do have two completely separate branches, the one that is offered by default and then the one you have to specifically look up to download. It's not THAT confusing. Even before when had 1.5, 2.0 and test branches for both (four versions, five if you count Steam) it was difficult to get other than the release without deliberately trying to get them. Some people still did, via reading just enough to be dangerous without actually knowing what they're doing.

 

@sylosis and nekhron

 

By all means, weigh in, including about flight models. My objection is to people assuming false equivalencies, though. An example

 

Most 'software engineers' in my experience work kn web pages, databases, PoS systems, company backends, etc. While potentially a complicated endeavour, you're talking about relatively restricted systems being used by specific people, on specific hardware, for specific purposes, in specific manners. It's the software equivalent of a 'clean room'.

 

Now take any game, or even a mobile app, and you're asking to interface with hundreds of phones or thousands of PC hardware combinations each of which is a potential failure point. Add in the inherent complexities of DCS, each of which is a potential failure point. Add in the human game variable, wherein you have people doing things in every conceivable order under every conceivable condition especially ones that are illogical (the game crashes for you, but only when inverted under 20ft, and ONLY when crossing the intersection of Fifth and Main... fascinating)

 

....

I wasn't taking it personal, no worries.

I appreciate that you clarified your opinion though. And, with regards to the OP and perhaps some others that might have commented in this thread, or in other threads, with some frustration in their messages, I can understand up to a point the frustration.

As I was pointing out previously, most people will look at DCS's development using their past experience with other games and softwares. And, it seems development is quite different in DCS and based on this, it can be frustrating, if you look at it with a perspective that is in line with "normal" development. But who can blame them, this is normal behavior I think.

One could argue "Yes but DCS is a flight sim, it's different, standard development doesn't apply". True, it is much different, versus most games, indeed. Does it mean it should be developed differently? I have no freaking clue... Which is why I can't by default say that those frustrated with ED are wrong. Nor can I say that you are right either. I just don't know.

And finally, I guess some will argue that it isn't all that different. Personally I think it is, but I can live with the fact that we can't all agree on this.

Oh and yes, of course, the computer software inside of Boeing's airplane is a lot more critical than DCS. So yes, Boeing has no margin for error, versus ED. But, all though I can see why you are making that comparison (to demonstrate that it isn't all that dramatic), I don't know... I guess you could throw something in that same vein to anyone who is frustrated about anything, don't you think?

Like yesterday, I was bitching about how expensive brocoli has become. Then you could say "Well in some countries they don't even have brocoli". See what I mean? :lol:

But anyway, this is how I see things and this is really just my opinion :P

Enjoy your flying! :thumbup:

It's all good. Tbh, the only reason I'm on here debating this stuff anyway is cause I am bored and can't play while waiting on parts. DCS Forum Wars edition is a handy outlet :p

-edit

And why are you eating brocoli in first place? If it didn't go down kicking and screaming, it shouldn't be on your plate

i have decided to delete release version. and i have decided to use cmd command to revert between versions if necessary.

dou you use this command regularly ? is it completey safe?

I used it to convert from release to Beta. Was pretty straightforward and problem free. Once release gets updated with some of these major fixes, I'll use it to switch back. There's really no need to have both simultaneously unless you just want to.

I think the bottom line is - we would like more frequently updates from Open Beta to Release versions.

Currently Open Beta is definitely good enough for Release. Push and have the open beta as a beta and not move the whole community it a beta version....

Sent from my Redmi Note 5A Prime using Tapatalk

I used it to convert from release to Beta. Was pretty straightforward and problem free. Once release gets updated with some of these major fixes, I'll use it to switch back. There's really no need to have both simultaneously unless you just want to.

What happens to the Hornet and PG map when you switch from OB to Release or visa versa? Does it delete the Hornet and PG map from the system when you switch from OB to Release? Does it have to download the Hornet and PG map everytime you go from Release to OB? Granted, it frees up disk space to have just one install, but how much time does it take to switch back and forth?

The only problem I am having is with these Tankers causing a black screen when exiting into mission editor( On Stable Release) but it is gone on the Open Beta version hoping they push out the OB to stable soon to fix it. I don't really like testing things or what tons of headaches if they do come.

I have no problem getting into the game but only exiting to mission editor. I am currently creating the back drop of all our squadrons F-18C missions