Understanding AWACS Messages

I know this question has been asked several times before, but I'm still a bit confused.

Sometimes I read that the BRA messages from AWACS have a bearing that relates to the Bull's Eye, and other times I read it is related to my aircraft.

Can someone clear this up for me?

Thanks.

BRA from bulls is related from bulls and is usually used when the contact is more than 10? miles from you

BRA from your aircraft is used when you are very close to a contact, so it's easier for you to navigate to that contact.

Sorry, still confused. In the F-5 'Defend Airbase' single mission, for example, I am bombarded with AWACS BRA messages all in the same format. How I am supposed to know if it's based on bullseye or me?

Also, how do I know what the bullseye is in that mission is?

"Where's bulls?"

You can look on your map to find that out, maybe it's also somewhere written in the briefing?

If you request a picture, AWACS will most likely give you BRAs from bulls

If you request a bogey dope, it will most likely give you BRAs from your plane

If it is from bulls or not is probably being told by the AWACS, just listen to it.

BRA from bulls is related from bulls and is usually used when the contact is more than 10? miles from you

 

BRA from your aircraft is used when you are very close to a contact, so it's easier for you to navigate to that contact.

In DCS this is not the case. DCS simplifies the calls.

For Blue side:

request picture -> bullseye calls -> relation between the bullseye and the contact - you will hear "bulls/bullseye" after the callsigns in a message

request BRAA -> BRAA call from your position -> relation between you and the contact

If you get an update without asking, it is always the BRAA format.

on the Red/Russian side you will get only the BRAA format even when you ask for picture.

Thanks guys, but I remain confused. Even in this short thread, there is different advice.

In the stock F-5 Defend Airbase mission, I get bombarded with 'Dodge 1-1 (me), Wizard, BRA, 308 for 90, at 16000, Hot' type messages.

How am I supposed to know if the 308 is a heading from me or bullseye?

Thanks guys, but I remain confused. Even in this short thread, there is different advice.

In the stock F-5 Defend Airbase mission, I get bombarded with 'Dodge 1-1 (me), Wizard, BRA, 308 for 90, at 16000, Hot' type messages.

How am I supposed to know if the 308 is a heading from me or bullseye?

He should tell you if it is from Bulls or not.

Try requesting a picture and a bogey dope, you'll see the difference.

He should tell you if it is from Bulls or not.

 

Try requesting a picture and a bogey dope, you'll see the difference.

Fair enough, I can do that, but I would like to know how to interpret the message coming thick and fast from him!

In the example I quoted in my previous post, how should that be interpreted in terms of bearing?

Fair enough, I can do that, but I would like to know how to interpret the message coming thick and fast from him!

In the example I quoted in my previous post, how should that be interpreted in terms of bearing?

That again depends on the call.

If he says it's from bulls, the bearing he will tell you is where the bandit is related to the bullseye. If the bearing is 308, you can get your ruler out and draw a line with the heading 308 from bulls and then you'll get the bandit's position from bulls.

If it is a call relative to you, let's say bearing 308, you need a heading of 308 to get to the bandit.

Thanks guys, but I remain confused. Even in this short thread, there is different advice.

In the stock F-5 Defend Airbase mission, I get bombarded with 'Dodge 1-1 (me), Wizard, BRA, 308 for 90, at 16000, Hot' type messages.

How am I supposed to know if the 308 is a heading from me or bullseye?

It's relative to you.

I think you get bulls eye bearing only when you ask for picture, and it's clearly stated in the message. Blue AWACS only.

So in the message I quoted, it is DEFINITELY relative to me, yes?

I am still confused as in the Agressors Campaign for the F-5, Maple Leaf say that the AWACS messages are relating to the bull, and only to me when bogey dope is requested.

Yes, the message you quoted is relative to you.

Fair enough, I can do that, but I would like to know how to interpret the message coming thick and fast from him!

In the example I quoted in my previous post, how should that be interpreted in terms of bearing?

BRAA

bearing

range

angels

aspect

Bearing is the direction from your plane to the bandits/hostiles one. 308 is somewhere NW of your position. If the bandit flies directly to you -he is hot - you would meet him headon if you turn 308. In the F5 you can use the HSI for your heading. AWACS doesn't give magnetic directions, so the directions can be about 5° off.

Maybe it helps if you pause the game when you get an AWACS call and try to figure out with the F10 map and the ruler what AWACS wants to tell you. Simply make a line from your plane to the bandits.

A real controller would set you up for an intercept and would talk you through but in DCS you only get simple BRAA calls.

So why is it different in the Agressors Campaign BFM?

BRAA

 

bearing

 

range

 

angels

 

aspect

 

Bearing is the direction from your plane to the bandits/hostiles one. 308 is somewhere NW of your position. If the bandit flies directly to you -he is hot - you would meet him headon if you turn 308. In the F5 you can use the HSI for your heading. AWACS doesn't give magnetic directions, so the directions can be about 5° off.

Maybe it helps if you pause the game when you get an AWACS call and try to figure out with the F10 map and the ruler what AWACS wants to tell you. Simply make a line from your plane to the bandits.

 

A real controller would set you up for an intercept and would talk you through but in DCS you only get simple BRAA calls.

Thanks but I totally understand what everything means EXCEPT for whether the bearing relates to me or the bullseye as advice seems to conflict.

So, here's an example.

First picture: AWACS tells me a bogey dope which is the bandits position relative to me.

Second picture: AWACS tells me a bogeys position relative to the bullseye and also TELLS you that the call is ment to be relative to the bullseye location. (Picture)

unrequested messages directed to you from awacs are still bogey dopes, so they're relative to you.

its almost as if you're making every effort not to understand whats going on here.

This thread is just adding to my confusion. Despite all you guys’ help.

Let me try and make it clear again.

I’m not asking for bogey dope, I simply want a definitive answer to whether the messages which are of the type I posted, relate to me or the bull. No mention of bull in the messages.

This thread is just adding to my confusion. Despite all you guys’ help.

Let me try and make it clear again.

I’m not asking for bogey dope, I simply want a definitive answer to whether the messages which are of the type I posted, relate to me or the bull. No mention of bull in the messages.

if there is no mentioning of bulls in the message, it's relative to you and obviously not bulls...

no bull = not from bulls

ok??????????????

if there is no mentioning of bulls in the message, it's relative to you...

Ok that is hopefully the definitive answer to that. So, why is it in the Agressor’s Campaign BFM that Maple Leaf say that the AWACS messages are relating to bull? They say to get a bearing relating to me, has to be got from bogey dope.

Let me quote you from Maple Leaf (very helpful guys!):

“First the heading question - if DARKSTAR is giving a contact report it's usually in reference from Bullseye so a 180 call would be a 180 heading from Bullseye. So depending on where you are in relation to Bullseye you would have to determine an appropriate heading.

For example if you were WEST of Bullseye then you might set your heading at 140 - 160 (head SOUTH EAST). If you were EAST of Bullseye then you would probably make a heading of 200 - 220 (head SOUTH WEST). This is assuming you are NORTH of Bullseye.

If it's in response to a Bogey Dope call then it is in relation to your aircraft. So if you are flying 090 and the report is a 180 call then turn to 180 and start scanning. Bogey Dope calls are always in relation to your aircraft (as you are the one asking for the Bogey Dope).

The contact reports are always in relation to Bullseye so all flights can determine where the bogies are (since they know where they are in relation to Bullseye).”

See why I am confused?

I think i spotted what confuses you.

I think with contact reports, they mean, when a new group of planes appear on the radar of the AWACS, he will tell you "blah blah, New pop up group at bulls B R A..."

that differs from the normal bogey dopes you get from the AWACS without asking anything.

But now, in order to clear it up for you:

Listen to what the AWACS says.

Let me quote you from Maple Leaf (very helpful guys!):

“First the heading question - if DARKSTAR is giving a contact report it's usually in reference from Bullseye so a 180 call would be a 180 heading from Bullseye. So depending on where you are in relation to Bullseye you would have to determine an appropriate heading.

 

For example if you were WEST of Bullseye then you might set your heading at 140 - 160 (head SOUTH EAST). If you were EAST of Bullseye then you would probably make a heading of 200 - 220 (head SOUTH WEST). This is assuming you are NORTH of Bullseye.

 

If it's in response to a Bogey Dope call then it is in relation to your aircraft. So if you are flying 090 and the report is a 180 call then turn to 180 and start scanning. Bogey Dope calls are always in relation to your aircraft (as you are the one asking for the Bogey Dope).

 

The contact reports are always in relation to Bullseye so all flights can determine where the bogies are (since they know where they are in relation to Bullseye).”

See why I am confused?

yep!

The example is worth nothing without any ranges and also miss what a Bullseye format or a BRAA format is and how to determine which one you get (the "usually" in the first sentence really doesn't help anyone).

Here is how the Navy explains their pilots what is what (Vegas is the bullseye):

from https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs-pat-pubs.asp

Guys, I really appreciate your help.

I fully understand your diagram RED, but I haven't seen/heard any of these formats in DCS. I have always understood the principle, it has always just been about the what the bearing relates to.

The format I see and hear is specifically as I posted above, i.e. 'UZI 1-1, Darkstar, BRA 023 for 14, at 24000, hot' as an example.

There is no 'Bullseye' format or 'BRAA format' as you suggest, and I think that's why I have been confused, especially in the light of advice given to me that the 'normal' messages were related to bullseye, and bogey dope was related to me.

I now see that this is not correct, as I have done a couple of examples of asking for a bogey dope immediately after a normal message came through. In both cases, they were almost the same. That proves that the normal message bearings relate to my aircraft.

(As an aside, I wonder why DCS says BRA when clearly it should be BRAA!)