AGM-65 Maverick - Firing solution

This was brought up by Warthogger in September 2011, but I didn't want to necro a thread that old. I will, however quote him because that saves me some typing :)

Hi guys,

 

In the DCS Warthog flight manual, and in the DCS simulation itself, Maverick missiles are targeted by slewing the crosshair 'gate' over a target in the Maverick missile's viewscreen, then letting the imaging system automatically lock onto the contrasting elements of a potential target. This is how the Maverick's targeting system works in real-life and is very realistic in the simulation. However, in the DCS simulation, the pointing cross (representing the missile's aspect to the target) flashes when a target is locked by the method described above. This is not correct behavior according to sources I've come across.

 

In real-life I believe a flashing pointing cross on the cockpit Maverick display indicates either a bad lock or a bad aspect ratio that is out of launch parameter specifications. According to Keith Rosenkrantz, former F-16 pilot and author of the book "Vipers in the Storm", the following real-world Maverick targeting behavior is as follows:

 

"The pointing cross must be steady. Once a lock-on has been achieved, the 'good lock' algorithm analyzes the target for size and apparent Delta-T requirements. If the target meets the minimum requirements and the seeker look-angle is within the keyhole, the pointing cross will remain steady. If it's flashing, the missile will break-lock after it's launched."

 

Keith also mentions in "Vipers in the Storm" that you never really knew if the Maverick was actually successfully locked unto a target until you fired the missile and it scored a successful hit. :cry: In real-life, according to Keith, the Maverick display never gave you a 'hard-lock' indication, you just had to observe the tracking gate appearing to successfully stay on the target in the Maverick display, and that you were both in range and the pointing cross was remaining steady.

 

In his book, Keith describes instances in actual combat over Iraq where he observed the Maverick missile tracking gate successfully staying over a target on the cockpit display, but sometime still experiencing a flashing pointing cross and being unable to fire the missile.

 

So, in short, a flashing pointing cross in real-life indicates a bad firing solution, whilst a steady cross means things are good to go.

 

Just thought I'd share this with you all. :noexpression:

Source: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=71672

Sure, it's just a minor detail for some, but for any perfectionists or suckers for realism, it'd be really nice to see this sorted.

Is there any chance we'll ever see this addressed?

Br,

Mud

Mud thanks for this feedback :thumbup:

Video from the topic (your link) is perfect, I don't know for you but with the slew of Warthog HOTAS it's not easy to move the cross (TGP or MAV) because the button is really small.

Thanks, Skull. :thumbup:

With constant TMS down you can ground stabilize the crosshair. This way it will be easier to move around the cursor. I recommend creating a mission in the editor with multiple targets on an airfield to practice slewing with the cursor. Apart from using TGP with Maverick seeker slaved to it the Mav seeker slew itself is an excellent tool for locking on closer targets of opportunity.

Is there any chance that this will ever be addressed, or should I give up hope?

With the F/A-18C's also being Maverick capable, I really hope this get's corrected to reflect the real world counterpart.

Best regards,

Mud

Speaking of the whole Maverick target aquisition thing; has there been a authoritative answer somewhere concerning 'ground stabilize' via TMS aft short and 'space stabilize' via TMS left long as described in the manual on page 88 (latest rev.)?

So 'track' target via TMS forward short works, 'ground stabilize' via TMS aft short works also, but i am not sure whether TMS left long does anything! What is space stabilize actually supposed to be doing?

The real issue i am confused about is; ground stabilization via TMS aft short is disengaged as soon as i start slewing the Maverick again. Is this how it works in RL? The TGP for instance stays ground stabilized no matter how i slew it around. I imagine to have read in one post of a RL A-10 pilot that this DCS A-10c behaviour is not correct and that the Maverick head stays ground stabilized even when you start slewing again.

Maverick seeker is a gyroscope, a spinning metal mass which naturally maintains orientation in space unless acted on by a torque. Without specific torquer motor input the seeker will look the same direction while the airplane pitches, banks, and yaws. This is space stabilized. To put it simple wording it's "float mode."

Any proper motion between the seeker bore and the target would be due to parallax from tangential motion to the LOS. If the target was infinitely far away the parallax would be zero.

Ground stabilize is an area stabilizing optical track of the ground or a parallax-compensated spatial mode based on assumed range to target depending on the model.

Thx for the detailed explanation. Again, i don't see anything happening or changing when i press 'space stabilize' via TMS left long. The seeker keeps floating in space like it normally does without any inputs. So i fail to see what TMS left long is supposed to do.

When you first select the missile is in the pre-designate position at the saved boresight location. By default this is laterally centered at the -70 mil position. When you turn the airplane the seeker follows "bolted" to the airplane matching its every move.

With WPN SOI if you press TMS left long you will notice the missile seeker decouple from the motion of the airplane in elevation and azimuth. If you were flying 360° and turn right 20° the missile will still be looking north. I guess it doesn't have gyro freedom in roll though as rolling the airplane still rolls the seeker.

If you slew from the space stabilize state it will do the normal command track failing that break lock mode when slew is ceased. If you press TMS down it will go ground mode. If you press TMS up it will command track (although oddly failing that won't do break lock like slew release).

You might be used to slaving the missile to another sensor but to see space stabilize clearly use the missile directly (MAV SOI).

Alright, so i see what you are talking about. I have tried it again and i can see what you mean. So ground stabilize really looks the seeker to a specific position on the ground that it will find again from a totally different position as long as you regain gimbal limits.

Space stabilize on the other hand seems to as you say remember azimuth and elevation but moves along or is offset by your planes change in position. So if you space stabilize looking 360°, turn right to 90° and fly for 10km and turn north again, you seeker would still look 360° but what you see is totally different because the seekers position has been offset by 10km to the east. Sounds about right?

Talk about a thread hijack :P

you are absolutely correct, apologies. This got out of hand pretty fast :)

you are absolutely correct, apologies. This got out of hand pretty fast :)

No worries, apologies accepted.

As long as someone from the ED team picks this up, that's all that matters to me :)