FM changes ?

Just come back to DCS, and the JF-17 seems a lot more draggy or is it just me.

Dogfighting seems harder than before.

AAR adds some drag also

AAR adds some drag also

yes AAR probe adds some drag, but even without AAR, JF-17 is IMO more draggy.

It would be good if DEKA made the AAR off by default because yesterday i have done some test on servers like "JUST DOGFIGHT" and the JF-17 start in the air with the probe :(, not the best config for dogfighting.

All servers i test the AAR is always on.

My suggestion is to make it off by default, and if we need it for a specific mission, we install it.

It’s probably a really small difference

It’s probably a really small difference

Sure, might be "placebo effect" because the AAR is ...big :)

Sure, might be "placebo effect" because the AAR is ...big :)

I just tested at 15,000 feet standard day. Could not find a difference in top speed or speed that it stays at a fixed throttle setting(set throttle to fixed value say 85%, see if speeds it settles to are different with or without probe). Clean speed was 695 knots IAS

So unless it’s modeled so that the drag increases with alpha as more surface area of the probe shows, the effect in straight and level flight seems to be very small.

In comparison in same conditions top speed test taking KG-600 is 18 knot decrease, and wingtip missiles 22 knot decrease

Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe

Thx for the test AeroGloria, now i will keep the probe ON :)

Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe

Yes, but a good surprise :)

I love flying the "fierce dragon", the FMs are really great.

Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe

That's weird, gonna check this.

My suggestion is to make it off by default, and if we need it for a specific mission, we install it.

Actually I think just having a default setting in the plane config would be good (provided the server won't override it).

I think the probe should just have been part of the load out screen. I know the devs want to add the fake timer but the weapon change should take even longer in comparison. I do not want to fly half blind most of the time. Mission creators already have option to add remove it from editor if they want so why force it on by default? It is in very odd position and hurts when in air to air combat.

Yeah, I can't tell a performance difference with the probe but it certainly obstructs vision to the right side some. I think most mission makers just don't bother checking those settings, and so it's always on since it's default. It would be better to have it as an armament option if possible or at the very least, turn it off by default.

It's a on/off switch, and must have an option which can be forced set by mission designers.

if it's set by load out interface, which means AAR probe have to be defined as a pylon, will be even worse than what we have.

Simple/quick missions can be easily edited to install/remove AAR probe.

Mount by default, will save a lot of time for designers who want to develop complex/dynamic missions, most of plans are set to be cold/ramp start in these missions.

AAR is almost unheard of in MP in my experience (been here since Flanker 2), so having it on by default is a bit problematic as most of the populated severs just take the default aircraft settings, whatever they maybe. I build my own missions when doing SP and constantly switching it off for every flight isn't very nice either. I am curious why you think having it be an armament option would be a problem. Why should it only be set by the mission builder? I'm honestly curious as I can't imagine a situation where that would be needed outside of some very coordinated mission for a private virtual squad where you can't trust your members to not do something overly stupid on the loadout screen:P. Obviously for SP it doesn't matter since it can be changed there either way, though it's just one more thing to remember.

Simple/quick missions can be easily edited to install/remove AAR probe.

Mount by default, will save a lot of time for designers who want to develop complex/dynamic missions, most of plans are set to be cold/ramp start in these missions.

This.

Despite some people's experiences indicating they don't use the AAR capability, some of us do alot of tanking in the Jeff.

It's better if it is defaulted off, but I find it's not a big deal to call up the ground crew and ask for it to be removed. I do this as step 1 before anything else. Works fine and doesn't add to the time required to start.

Would be nice to have the AAR probe removed instantly instead of waiting for it... Would be nice on multiplayer Missions where I dont have the control over Mission Editor.

Would be nice to have the AAR probe removed instantly instead of waiting for it... Would be nice on multiplayer Missions where I dont have the control over Mission Editor.

Why you want it instantly? I mean, waiting 15 secs doesn't hurts anyone, while they remove the AAR probe, you can start the plane, align, or ask for weapons...

Why you want it instantly? I mean, waiting 15 secs doesn't hurts anyone, while they remove the AAR probe, you can start the plane, align, or ask for weapons...

Mate, you are supposed to have your engines off while the probe is being switched. If it does not even follow that rule then the developers need to look into this or else it is a pointless function added to this module.

Mate, you are supposed to have your engines off while the probe is being switched. If it does not even follow that rule then the developers need to look into this or else it is a pointless function added to this module.

Start the plane doesn't mean start the engine, you have batteries, lights, G-Suits, oxygen masks, bla bla bla...

u can start everything and at last start the engine

But is that even realistic at that point?

But is that even realistic at that point?

what realistic ? by opening power and MFD lights and all systems and oxg + G-suit and defoge and allign after that IFF and Datalink and rearm then run your engine and ask for DTC card where is the problem here ?? i dont see any of this stages will be effective on anything

and by realistic do u have a video or source for JF-17 startup procedure so u can call what we do unrealistic ?

But is that even realistic at that point?

I don't see anything unrealistic in that lol

what realistic ? by opening power and MFD lights and all systems and oxg + G-suit and defoge and allign after that IFF and Datalink and rearm then run your engine and ask for DTC card where is the problem here ?? i dont see any of this stages will be effective on anything

 

and by realistic do u have a video or source for JF-17 startup procedure so u can call what we do unrealistic ?

Who hurt you? What proof do you have where the pilot is turning on the batteries and running through procedures while the jet is getting a whole rod shoved on its side?

Do you even apply common sense before running after "muh proof" defense?

Such a stereotypical response. If you do not know anything and cannot keep cool in debates, please refrain from responding.

Either add value to your response or dont answer. There are plenty other threads for you to ask people for proof on.

My main question is still, if we have artifical time added to somewhat add fake delay because it is a time consuming procedure (Again, I am talking about adding fuel probe), then why allow players to power on the systems. Is doing so realistic or safe?

If you get annoyed easily, please don't bother replying. I won't lose any sleep not knowing.