sylkhan Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just come back to DCS, and the JF-17 seems a lot more draggy or is it just me. Dogfighting seems harder than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Romeo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=271034&highlight=FM My skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 AAR adds some drag also Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylkhan Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 AAR adds some drag also yes AAR probe adds some drag, but even without AAR, JF-17 is IMO more draggy. It would be good if DEKA made the AAR off by default because yesterday i have done some test on servers like "JUST DOGFIGHT" and the JF-17 start in the air with the probe :(, not the best config for dogfighting. All servers i test the AAR is always on. My suggestion is to make it off by default, and if we need it for a specific mission, we install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 It’s probably a really small difference Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylkhan Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 It’s probably a really small difference Sure, might be "placebo effect" because the AAR is ...big :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Sure, might be "placebo effect" because the AAR is ...big :) I just tested at 15,000 feet standard day. Could not find a difference in top speed or speed that it stays at a fixed throttle setting(set throttle to fixed value say 85%, see if speeds it settles to are different with or without probe). Clean speed was 695 knots IAS So unless it’s modeled so that the drag increases with alpha as more surface area of the probe shows, the effect in straight and level flight seems to be very small. In comparison in same conditions top speed test taking KG-600 is 18 knot decrease, and wingtip missiles 22 knot decrease Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe Edited July 9, 2020 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylkhan Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 Thx for the test AeroGloria, now i will keep the probe ON :) Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe Yes, but a good surprise :) I love flying the "fierce dragon", the FMs are really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Surprisingly the plane is quite lighter with the probe then it is without the probe That's weird, gonna check this. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 My suggestion is to make it off by default, and if we need it for a specific mission, we install it. Actually I think just having a default setting in the plane config would be good (provided the server won't override it). New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorban Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I think the probe should just have been part of the load out screen. I know the devs want to add the fake timer but the weapon change should take even longer in comparison. I do not want to fly half blind most of the time. Mission creators already have option to add remove it from editor if they want so why force it on by default? It is in very odd position and hurts when in air to air combat. Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 III ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H Other Modules : Combined Arms ¦ Persian Gulf TRAINED - LEARNING - LOW EXPERIENCE - ABANDONED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastyBaiter Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Yeah, I can't tell a performance difference with the probe but it certainly obstructs vision to the right side some. I think most mission makers just don't bother checking those settings, and so it's always on since it's default. It would be better to have it as an armament option if possible or at the very least, turn it off by default. System specs: i5-10600k (4.9 GHz), RX 6950XT, 32GB DDR4 3200, NVMe SSD, Reverb G2, WinWing Super Libra/Taurus, CH Pro Pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0op8ack Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) It's a on/off switch, and must have an option which can be forced set by mission designers. if it's set by load out interface, which means AAR probe have to be defined as a pylon, will be even worse than what we have. Simple/quick missions can be easily edited to install/remove AAR probe. Mount by default, will save a lot of time for designers who want to develop complex/dynamic missions, most of plans are set to be cold/ramp start in these missions. Edited July 11, 2020 by L0op8ack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastyBaiter Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) AAR is almost unheard of in MP in my experience (been here since Flanker 2), so having it on by default is a bit problematic as most of the populated severs just take the default aircraft settings, whatever they maybe. I build my own missions when doing SP and constantly switching it off for every flight isn't very nice either. I am curious why you think having it be an armament option would be a problem. Why should it only be set by the mission builder? I'm honestly curious as I can't imagine a situation where that would be needed outside of some very coordinated mission for a private virtual squad where you can't trust your members to not do something overly stupid on the loadout screen:P. Obviously for SP it doesn't matter since it can be changed there either way, though it's just one more thing to remember. Edited July 11, 2020 by BeastyBaiter System specs: i5-10600k (4.9 GHz), RX 6950XT, 32GB DDR4 3200, NVMe SSD, Reverb G2, WinWing Super Libra/Taurus, CH Pro Pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydii Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Simple/quick missions can be easily edited to install/remove AAR probe. Mount by default, will save a lot of time for designers who want to develop complex/dynamic missions, most of plans are set to be cold/ramp start in these missions. This. Despite some people's experiences indicating they don't use the AAR capability, some of us do alot of tanking in the Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-II Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 It's better if it is defaulted off, but I find it's not a big deal to call up the ground crew and ask for it to be removed. I do this as step 1 before anything else. Works fine and doesn't add to the time required to start. Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinozherous Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Would be nice to have the AAR probe removed instantly instead of waiting for it... Would be nice on multiplayer Missions where I dont have the control over Mission Editor. i7-14700KF 5.6GHz Water Cooled /// ZOTAC RTX 4070 TI Super 16GB /// 32GB RAM DDR5 /// Win11 /// SSDs only DCS - XP12 - MSFS2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco2002 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Would be nice to have the AAR probe removed instantly instead of waiting for it... Would be nice on multiplayer Missions where I dont have the control over Mission Editor. Why you want it instantly? I mean, waiting 15 secs doesn't hurts anyone, while they remove the AAR probe, you can start the plane, align, or ask for weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorban Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Why you want it instantly? I mean, waiting 15 secs doesn't hurts anyone, while they remove the AAR probe, you can start the plane, align, or ask for weapons... Mate, you are supposed to have your engines off while the probe is being switched. If it does not even follow that rule then the developers need to look into this or else it is a pointless function added to this module. Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 III ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H Other Modules : Combined Arms ¦ Persian Gulf TRAINED - LEARNING - LOW EXPERIENCE - ABANDONED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco2002 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Mate, you are supposed to have your engines off while the probe is being switched. If it does not even follow that rule then the developers need to look into this or else it is a pointless function added to this module. Start the plane doesn't mean start the engine, you have batteries, lights, G-Suits, oxygen masks, bla bla bla... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiron Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 u can start everything and at last start the engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorban Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 But is that even realistic at that point? Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 III ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H Other Modules : Combined Arms ¦ Persian Gulf TRAINED - LEARNING - LOW EXPERIENCE - ABANDONED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiron Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 But is that even realistic at that point? what realistic ? by opening power and MFD lights and all systems and oxg + G-suit and defoge and allign after that IFF and Datalink and rearm then run your engine and ask for DTC card where is the problem here ?? i dont see any of this stages will be effective on anything and by realistic do u have a video or source for JF-17 startup procedure so u can call what we do unrealistic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco2002 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 But is that even realistic at that point? I don't see anything unrealistic in that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorban Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 what realistic ? by opening power and MFD lights and all systems and oxg + G-suit and defoge and allign after that IFF and Datalink and rearm then run your engine and ask for DTC card where is the problem here ?? i dont see any of this stages will be effective on anything and by realistic do u have a video or source for JF-17 startup procedure so u can call what we do unrealistic ? Who hurt you? What proof do you have where the pilot is turning on the batteries and running through procedures while the jet is getting a whole rod shoved on its side? Do you even apply common sense before running after "muh proof" defense? Such a stereotypical response. If you do not know anything and cannot keep cool in debates, please refrain from responding. Either add value to your response or dont answer. There are plenty other threads for you to ask people for proof on. My main question is still, if we have artifical time added to somewhat add fake delay because it is a time consuming procedure (Again, I am talking about adding fuel probe), then why allow players to power on the systems. Is doing so realistic or safe? If you get annoyed easily, please don't bother replying. I won't lose any sleep not knowing. Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 III ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H Other Modules : Combined Arms ¦ Persian Gulf TRAINED - LEARNING - LOW EXPERIENCE - ABANDONED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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