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R-27R (not ER)


pepin1234

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I have tested this missile again Mirage and the new F-18. ohoh my god what a bad Performance have this missile R-27R short burn. The fight with the smaller R-27R is a waste of time. The over power of the Mirage missiles is huge yesterday been killed from head on with a Matra Super 530 shoot from less than 4 km in fear combat while my R-73 was a miss at the same distance, same moment.

 

 

Why so bad performance in DCS for the smaller R-27R missile while the manufacture show not that bad performance compared with the long burn ER. Also the Su-30/35 was combat ready taking off in Syria with the short R-27R missile in payload. See manufacturer:

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/527/

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There is bias in this simulator and you will have to live with it. Since the majority of DCS Pilots prefer western stuff (which is expected), everything western in DCS performs much better than anything russian, in order to satisfy the customers who expect one missile one kill combat. The Flagship of this bias is the F-15C, which is hard to kill like a cockroach. I have also heard the Matra 530D was buffed, you can guess why. RuAF is arming even their latest jets with R-27R/ER missiles, which means they can rely on them. That on the other hand doesn't prove anything in DCS.

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There is bias in this simulator and you will have to live with it. Since the majority of DCS Pilots prefer western stuff (which is expected), everything western in DCS performs much better than anything russian, in order to satisfy the customers who expect one missile one kill combat. The Flagship of this bias is the F-15C, which is hard to kill like a cockroach. I have also heard the Matra 530D was buffed, you can guess why. RuAF is arming even their latest jets with R-27R/ER missiles, which means they can rely on them. That on the other hand doesn't prove anything in DCS.

 

All the above based on what chart ? What data ?

 

Do you have anything to prove the bias for Western aircrafts ?

 

Do you know why and how the 530D was buffed ?

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

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All the above based on what chart ? What data ?

 

Do you have anything to prove the bias for Western aircrafts ?

 

Do you know why and how the 530D was buffed ?

 

The best proof is DCS itself. My friend has once showed me a tacview video where he killed an F-15C, the F-15C disappears and some 10 seconds later that F-15C launches an Aim-9 and kills him. I have witnessed F-15C get hit by 5+ KUB missiles and it kept smoking and firing missiles at others. I have flown BVR battles, 6xR-27ER launch equals to 1 Aim-120 or Matra 530D launch. Go look at what planes people fly in PVP servers. This is about DCS, not real life so don't get too excited.

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The best proof is DCS itself. My friend has once showed me a tacview video where he killed an F-15C, the F-15C disappears and some 10 seconds later that F-15C launches an Aim-9 and kills him. I have witnessed F-15C get hit by 5+ KUB missiles and it kept smoking and firing missiles at others. I have flown BVR battles, 6xR-27ER launch equals to 1 Aim-120 or Matra 530D launch. Go look at what planes people fly in PVP servers. This is about DCS, not real life so don't get too excited.

 

R-27ER has more range than 530D and AIM-7, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

F-15C has a problem with its DM, a bug is not a bias proof. The HAWK is un-killable and the Mig-29 was a tank not too far ago.

 

If you think that missile performances are not OK, please provide data and chart showing so. But what you did is trolling and even off-topic, the topic being R-27R performances.

 

BTW if you are firing 6 Fox-1 in one BVR fight, you are doing something wrong.

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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R-27ER has more range than 530D and AIM-7, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

F-15C has a problem with its DM, a bug is not a bias proof. The HAWK is un-killable and the Mig-29 was a tank not too far ago.

 

If you think that missile performances are not OK, please provide data and chart showing so. But what you did is trolling and even off-topic, the topic being R-27R performances.

 

BTW if you are firing 6 Fox-1 in one BVR fight, you are doing something wrong.

 

1. Range doesn't kill.

 

2. Its not a bug since there are no intentions of fixing it. HAWK in BVR?

 

3. A couple of modders have confirmed that missiles aren't performing as in real life. You can check it out in the mods section.

 

I am not trolling, I am just telling this guy that his complaint is nothing and he isn't the only guy with such a complain.

 

4. Not 6 at one time, but of course, in a certain time span after each one clearly misses the target.

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LoL if you think killing a F-15C is difficult then you are doing something wrong or you are fighting somebody really experienced.

Also i have seen Flankers shoot R-73 when they should have been killed. I have seen flankers come after me after 2 hits and kill me.

So the BIAS is yours cause you only see one side. Because you prefer to think biased, you think others think and act the same. But it doesn't work like that. Yes the missiles are sucky. But that is for all missiles. An AIM-120C becomes dangerous only within 6 miles if you have at least some skill. And the 530D can be defeated pretty well if you know what you are doing. Multiple times i have fired my entire F-15 armament on a skilled SU-27 Flanker with no hits at all. He turns around and he kills me. But visa versa as well. So yes you are trolling, or totally ignorant.

 

But indeed the R-27R and the T are a special case. Those things suck even more. It's still possible to kill people with it. But you need to fire it within the perfect parameters.

But seriously.. what's new. They are working on the missiles as we speak.

Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.

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So if I am trolling then why are Sukhois and Migs almost non-present in PVP battles? If the red side has Mirages and Sukhois, most of the times you will see more Mirages than Sukhois flown on the same red side. Even if the red side has F-15C, people will choose F-15C over any sukhoi. Yeah, I am trolling, but stats aren't.


Edited by FistofZen

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All the above based on what chart ? What data ?

 

Do you have anything to prove the bias for Western aircrafts ?

 

Do you know why and how the 530D was buffed ?

 

We don’t have nothing to prove for you Sr. as well you don’t have it. So why you ask for prove?

 

This small R-27R is a shame in this game. Why the Russian must have only the bigger ER to make some success when IRL they have the smaller R in payload in every modern aircraft?

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So if I am trolling then why are Sukhois and Migs almost non-present in PVP battles? If the red side has Mirages and Sukhois, most of the times you will see more Mirages than Sukhois flown on the same red side. Even if the red side has F-15C, people will choose F-15C over any sukhoi. Yeah, I am trolling, but stats aren't.

 

SATAL begs to differ. Also last year SATAC winner 51st flies all flankers.

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Is SATAL a public server?

 

No. SATAL is where some of the best squadrons compete with each other. Flying on a public server is like sleepwalking compared to SATAL / SATAC.

 

You can fly around in an F-5 with 2x AIM-9P5 which is one the worst missiles in game and still kill 120C equipped F-15Cs and Flankers. Ask any of the red guys going around in the 104th.

 

They won with R-27R?

 

Actually yes. It was alternating R27ER and R27R vs AIM7 between rounds. So one round Eagle has the advantage with AIM7 vs R27R, the next is AIM7 VS 27ER and Flanker has the advantage.

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Why so bad performance in DCS for the smaller R-27R missile while the manufacture show not that bad performance compared with the long burn ER. Also the Su-30/35 was combat ready taking off in Syria with the short R-27R missile in payload. See manufacturer:

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/527/

 

How many times was a R-27r fired in Syria?

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No. SATAL is where some of the best squadrons compete with each other. Flying on a public server is like sleepwalking compared to SATAL / SATAC.

 

You can fly around in an F-5 with 2x AIM-9P5 which is one the worst missiles in game and still kill 120C equipped F-15Cs and Flankers. Ask any of the red guys going around in the 104th.

 

 

Please, not the 104th jokes.

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@Pepin... As a dedicated Red Flanker driver myself, yes, the R-27R sucks, but so does every other missile in the game. If you get shot down, don't blame your missile or the enemy's missile, blame yourself because you put yourself in a bad position to get shot down in the first place :)

 

Oh and please stop starting new threads like this every few months. It's getting boring!

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There are people flying regularly on the 104th server who kill Eagles,Hornets and whatever blue has with F-5s.

 

All missiles are broken. Some more than others. But there is no bias.

 

The only joke here is this thread. Looks like you don't even have any more arguments to add so instead you went for a weak attempt at offending me.

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SATAL begs to differ. Also last year SATAC winner 51st flies all flankers.

 

That is exceptional, 51st is the only squad that have managed to win over F-15 squads for over 10 years. It is not our missiles and we had to adapt tactics to win the day. But as the missiles become more realistic it became obvious that fighting AIM-120C vs ER-27 was to big difference in tracking, and it might be right since there is 20 years difference between them.

 

As you can see in SATAL and SATAC 51st are the only Su-27 squad that are competing with F-15 squads. dont think everyone can preform as 51st. We as 51st know that 1vs1 ER vs Aim-120 has no chance, so we developed better teamwork then other teams in order to compensate for missiles performance.

 

Weapons from same decades should be used in competitive environments as SATAL, Campaign is a different thing where all weapons can be used depending on how much the general want to spend on missiles.

 

So lets get back to R-27/R-77 that has same range as R-73, something is not totally right as different mods pointed out, the sad thing is that the mod did only modify western missiles.


Edited by Teknetinium

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@Pepin... As a dedicated Red Flanker driver myself, yes, the R-27R sucks, but so does every other missile in the game. If you get shot down, don't blame your missile or the enemy's missile, blame yourself because you put yourself in a bad position to get shot down in the first place :)

 

Oh and please stop starting new threads like this every few months. It's getting boring!

 

I am dedicated Mig-29 Pilot too and this situation is over for me. Take a time and look the RWR of the Mig-29... plus the R-27R is absolutely a trash. The Aim-7 and the Matra super 530 make the job at 15km perfectly because I analyze the most of my combat. Comparing those two with the R-27R short burn is like crazy the bad performance that have this missile.


Edited by pepin1234

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That is exceptional, 51st is the only squad that have managed to win over F-15 squads for over 10 years. It is not our missiles and we had to adapt tactics to win the day. But as the missiles become more realistic it became obvious that fighting AIM-120C vs ER-27 was to big difference in tracking, and it might be right since there is 20 years difference between them.

 

As you can see in SATAL and SATAC 51st are the only Su-27 squad that are competing with F-15 squads. dont think everyone can preform as 51st. We as 51st know that 1vs1 ER vs Aim-120 has no chance, so we developed better teamwork then other teams in order to compensate for missiles performance.

 

Weapons from same decades should be used in competitive environments as SATAL, Campaign is a different thing where all weapons can be used depending on how much the general want to spend on missiles.

 

So lets get back to R-27/R-77 that has same range as R-73, something is not totally right as different mods pointed out, the sad thing is that the mod did only modify western missiles.

 

Actually almost every squad in SATAL is using J-11s or Su-27s. Most of them not exclusively, but there are a lot of them.

 

77 having the same range as a 73 is an over exaggeration, while it has poor range it is quite deadly within 5 miles. 27R is just overall garbage especially when it has to turn. If someone thinks they can fight a fair fight 27R vs AIM7 obviously he will lose unless the Eagle driver is an idiot. If you have first shot at short ranges with 27R you can win but this needs to be setup right by notching or hiding.

 

No doubt there's a lot of talent in the 51st but mostly it's down to dedication and knowledge. I see a lot of dedicated people flying all the time and I also see a lot of people who know quite a lot but can't fly enough. These 2 things rarely meet and what's even less common is these kind of people being in the same group.

 

Sadly in my experience since Hornet release the general A2A quality has gone downhill outside tournament play..

 

I am dedicated Mig-29 Pilot too and this situation is over for me. Take a time and look the RWR of the Mig-29... plus the R-27R is absolutely a trash. The Aim-7 and the Matra super 530 make the job at 15 perfectly because I analyze the most of my combat. Comparing those two with the R-27R short burn is like crazy the bad performance that have this missile.

 

If you're flying on 80s loadout servers you might want to load 73s instead. Those things are insane when fired near rear aspect.

 

In any case I'm not seeing any facts how the 27R is not meeting realistic performance. Manufacturer max range shot supersonic at 40kft or higher does not translate into how it performs in DCS.

 

Not that in similar scenario the missile can reach the marketing numbers. But every missile is broken so this is no surprise. The problematic part is that russian radar guided missiles seem to be more prone to stupid guidance issues (i.e. chaff resistance).

 

If you want to have any hope of helping ED improve the missiles, provide them data instead of creating a thread every month that this or that missile sucks and it's unfair.

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Blaze thanks for your advice. I know what I am talking about and I use to fly in the 104th in some cases when you are inside the server... nothing to add how to use those weapons in DCS. The R-27R have different enough to lose every time against wester counterparts Aim-7 and Matra Super 530. Such missiles never in between got into combat. All the R-27R in NATO side are first serie and export serie of this weapon. Why in the Russian side we have this trash of Russian R-27R short burn...?


Edited by pepin1234

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Blaze thanks for your advice. I know what I am talking about and I use to fly in the 104th in some cases when you are inside the server... nothing to add how use those weapons in DCS. The R-27R have different enough to lose every time against wester counterparts Aim-7 and Matra Super 530. Such missiles never in between got into combat. All the R-27R in NATO side are first serie and export serie of this weapon. Why in the Russian side we have this trash of Russian R-27R short burn...?

 

There is a mod that fix the MIG-29 RWR and can pass the IC, it works perfect.

 

Read the link: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160353&page=2

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And here we go again with the conspiracy theories :thumbdown:

 

ED strive for realism. There is no "balance" in DCS. There is no national bias. There is reality, or as close to it as can be achieved.

 

All missiles in DCS suffer from excessive drag which results in unrealistic range. SARH missiles have additional issues with the way in which expendables are modelled.

 

This is all well known & is not a conspiracy.

 

/thread.

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Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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