Madeyes Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hi guys. So as an ex RAF Harrier engineer I always thought that the probe wasn't far enough forward in the game compared to real life. After all why would they deliberately make a hard job even harder by putting it out of the pilots view? So I finally found an old picture to prove my point. Hopefully this can be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Nice pic Madeyes. I wonder how we could measure the length of the probe to check ingame size. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeyes Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 To me it’s just a matter of lining up references & see if they match. They don’t. Look at the headbox on the ejection seat compared to the end of the probe. I’m going to take another shot once I download the update & try to align them better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks mate, could you post this in the Harrier bug section for Decoy eyes? " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeyes Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Can it be moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Private message for him... " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks for your contribution Madeyes :thumbup: Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadist_Cain Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Oh lord yes let it be, let it be!!! Just picturing where the probe would sit if it was adjusted would make refuelling an absolute dream, staying connected isn't much issue, but getting connected is and this would help massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-51_Razor Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Don't forget that the appearance of the position of the probe in those 2 pictures depends a great deal on the angle from which the picture was taken. It looks to me like the screen shot of the AV-8B was not taken at the same angle of the real Harrier. Having said that, I completely agree with Madeyes' point. I would even advocate that RAZBAM extend it a slight amount if it turns out to be correct, so as to make it a little easier to make the connection. I understand the desire for strict adherence to RL dimensions but I am not opposed to some compromises to accommodate us virtual aviators operating in a 2D world. :joystick: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Seeing how other 3d model issues reports have been rejected, I'd say don't hold your hopes up for this one either. Razbam said according to them the model is perfect and nothing will be changed... Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Interesting to see what they do here.I wonder of it is a major job to do, or if it is a relatively simple job to do. MODULES: A10C Warthog,AH-64 D APACHE,AJS Viggen,AV8B Harrier,BF109 K4,C101 Aviojet,F14 Tomcat,F15E Eagle,F16 Viper,F5 Tiger,F86 Sabre,FA18C Hornet,FW190A8,FW190D9,I16 Ishak,JF17 Thunder,KA50 Blackshark,L39Albatros,Mirage2000C,Mirage F-1,MI24P,MI8MVT2,MIG15BIS,MIG19P,MIG21BIS,Mosquito FB VI,P51D Mustang,P47D Thunderbolt,SA342 Gazell,SpitfireIX,TF51D,UH1H Huey,Yak52. OTHER:Flamming cliffs,Combined Arms,WW2 Assets Pack,SuperCarrier. TERRAINS: Nevada,Caucasus,Normandy,Persian Gulf,Syria,Channel,Marianas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Yeah, being able to sorta see the probe would make tanking a ton easier. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I refuel all the time online and single player and I do not have to look at the probe. As long as you get close it will automatically connect. People complain now that is hard, imagine if they fix this and make realistic? Here is a track of me doing IFR on single player OB versions 24325729 [ATTACH]201273[/ATTACH] To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Orso Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 The worst thing you could do is to look at the probe, even if it extended up to adjacent to the cockpit. Turning your head causes an involuntary tendency to steer in the direction of view. This is the same for aircraft as automobiles, and it is the cause for so many accidents on freeways in which people drive into vehicles stopped on the shoulder. They start staring at the broken-down vehicle, and do not notice that they have inadvertently steered toward the vehicle, until it's too late. Don't try to watch the basket being penetrated by the probe.... *ahem* , you can Google that stuff after duty hours :noexpression: When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mech Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 You guys are missing the point. The question is not if it would make easier or harder the AAR, but if the probe position is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmitriKozlowsky Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Perhaps you are right. On British GR7/9 probe is more forward. But RAZBAM's AV8-8B is based on U.S. Marine Corps variant. I do agree that probe is too far aft. There also a lack of director lights on KC-130 and director lights on KC-135 do not appear to function when refueling with probe/drogue. I don't like the current DCS method of in-flight refuel for AV-8B, where you just eyeball relative to sight picture. I figure that in real world, there would be some kind of feedback on HUD or lights on tanker that show own A/C datum relative to basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) The worst thing you could do is to look at the probe, even if it extended up to adjacent to the cockpit. [...] Don't try to watch the basket being penetrated by the probe.... *ahem* , you can Google that stuff after duty hours :noexpression: Focus on the pilot: EDIT: Oooh, it becomes even better: Edited January 15, 2019 by Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Look at the tanker or look at the drogue. Either way has it's merits, I find I can do both, but is obviously easier to focus on relative position to the tanker in the Harrier. It's also a better way to start as you practise making the very small fine control movements of formation flying rather than chasing the drogue and the inevitable PIOs that rookie pilots inevitably induce doing so. Don't forget that unless you are flying in VR then depth perception in simulators is that much more problematic and by using reference points on the tanker it's a lot simpler to set your position up correctly. Attempting to judge the position of a drogue alone, you have little sense of it's distance from you until you've plugged a fair number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 So far, if I focused on the basket the rollercoaster kicked off. :D After watching this, I'll give it a try again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Orso Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Focus on the pilot: EDIT: Oooh, it becomes even better: LOL such confirmation bias. Did you completely ignore that in the second video the approach attempt directly before he was successful, that right when the pilot turns his head to look at the basket he completely losses control and is all over the place :joystick: ? But do whatever works for you. When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 LOL such confirmation bias. Did you completely ignore that in the second video the approach attempt directly before he was successful, that right when the pilot turns his head to look at the basket he completely losses control and is all over the place :joystick: ? But do whatever works for you. Wow! Confirmation bias. You almost triggered me:megalol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadist_Cain Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) I refuel all the time online and single player and I do not have to look at the probe. As long as you get close it will automatically connect. People complain now that is hard, imagine if they fix this and make realistic? Here is a track of me doing IFR on single player OB versions 24325729 [ATTACH]201273[/ATTACH] LOL such confirmation bias. Did you completely ignore that in the second video the approach attempt directly before he was successful, that right when the pilot turns his head to look at the basket he completely losses control and is all over the place ? But do whatever works for you. Ahh well I can refuel upside at night so there... xD So firstly, I refuel every time I go out in the harrier without issue. Thread isn't about whos refuelling probe is longer, it's about the accuracy of the model for the probe. However there's no argument that making the connection without being able to see the probe or the drogue at point of contact is most certainly the trickiest aspect, which if the OP is correct would be made a lot simpler with the probe being a tad forward. Secondly, On what earth do you think you fly a multi million dollar single engine aircraft towards a hunk of steel and rubber a couple of feet from the intake without looking? Maintain a primary scan on the refueling pod and aircraft while keeping the hose / drogue in your peripheral vision as closure begins. This will prevent you from "chasing the basket" and reduces PIO. 3. As the drogue passes the canopy bow, scan should be transitioned directly to the drogue, which should now be abeam your left shoulder aligned with the refueling probe.Confirmation bias... :thumbup: Edited January 16, 2019 by Sadist_Cain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Your right Edited January 16, 2019 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Again not the same angles, but close. Maybe it helps. I don't have an answer. But I would guess, as the arm seems to be attached on the same position, and it looks the same... So, everything is fine. Edit: I'm not able, but the first picture should be great for screenshot comparison. Edited January 16, 2019 by Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-51_Razor Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 One thing to keep in mind here is the huge difference between trying to do this in front of a computer monitor and sitting in the actual cockpit in a 3D world where, with just a very slight turn of the head, the probe and basket would easily be in your peripheral vision. I don't have any VR gear but I would bet that it might be a little easier with an Oculus on your head. I have been able to make adjustments and use other cues in order to make it work but it is by far, the hardest thing I have learned to do in this simulation! I would not be opposed to a developer making a few concessions here and there to help us poor sods trying to do this on a computer monitor! :joystick: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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