Jump to content

Military vs Civil Simulation


borchi_2b

Recommended Posts

There are some exceptions, like civil variants of military planes or aircraft with a strong military connection (Dc-3, or Ju-52), but generally I don't think any civil aircraft other than helicopters will work well in DCS right now. Not without much more an larger maps.

 

For me a large part of the attraction of FSX was that I had an entire world to explore. I did cross the Sahara in a DC-3 and loved the fly GA planes over highly detailed landscapes. Especially enjoyed Aerosofts VFR Germany photo scenery, in which I could navigate through the landscapes I knew from the ground.

 

While flying helicopters cities like Las Vegas or Abu Dhabi and their hinterland are large enough for countless hours of interesting flying. But anything faster would quickly show the limits of the platform. What would be the worth of some highly detailed airliner add on and International airport if their is no destination to fly to?

 

Currently resources should be spend to create an decent environment for WW2 planes, before starting with modern airliners or GA planes. Progress on this in DCS is already slow enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 187
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Two years ago I flew from Kuwait International to Washington Dulles... halfway around the world on one flight. That is what you need to bring in the large civilian aircraft virtual pilots to DCS. To successfully implement large civilian transports, large military transports and strategic bombers the maps in DCS need to be much larger than they are currently capable of making. They are just barely big enough for the aircraft we currently have. I do see a market for civilian helicopters, regional airliners such as the CRJ or SAAB 340, and back country bush planes like the Twin otter or Turbo Porter, tactical transports up to about C-130 size and maybe medium bombers like the Tu-22M3. Not all civilian aircraft interest me but I would definatly be in the market for modules that would be challenging to operate.

 

A Pilatus Turbo-Porter would be awesome to try to land on the side of a mountain in Indonesia. Even a small twin like the Do-228 landing at Lukla Nepal or Fokker 50 into Ísafjörður Iceland

 

 

 

 

 

... and then theres the possibility of helitac and airtanker ops. If only there was some way to simulate fighting virtual wildland fires.

 

 

Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.

 

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

 

"If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to have civilian aircraft in DCS, however the choice may be limited by the size of the maps, at least for now. Now that we have a couple of jet trainers, it would be nice to have a simple, easy to fly prop plane so people could make a natural progress from basic trainer, to jet trainer and ultimately to combat aircraft.

If someone would make a plain old boring Cessna 172, I'd buy it immediately. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see only advantages to DCS to drag general aviation over it. It will be a chain reaction:

 

- general aviation will require bigger maps

- bigger maps will require more ground control (ATC)

- infrastructure being created will attract more users to DCS

- more users to DCS -> more devs -> more income

- more income -> new engine developments

- new engine features -> new worlds to attract - vehicles, trains, ships, firs person...

 

Maybe a dream, but it is a feasible with the right amount of interest into it. Not a DCS MMO world is what I want, but a complex world where interaction and diversity will be the key word.

 

DCS it is and will remain the brand, no matter what is standing for ! Military stuff is and should remain this game baseline because this one brings the right amount of adrenaline to players, but not exclude anything because of this. They just need to be done with the already known fidelity as what DCS is today

 

I (and know for sure others too) still dream for a game were DCS/X-Plane or variants/ARMA/Eurotrucks/spintires/train/bus/tram can be founded together... still dream about it.


Edited by Abburo

Romanian Community for DCS World

HW Specs: AMD 7900X, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090, HOTAS Virpil, MFG, CLS-E, custom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see myself agreeing to a lot of points here.

 

First, I will thank a developer to raise this question, that's a first I think. ;)

 

Secondly, I believe there could be lots of room for certain civilian aircraft in DCS.

 

As others have mentioned, with the current map size we would have to start with aircraft that does not have, or does not need a long range.

These could be:

 

  • helicopters
  • small GA aircraft
  • medium transport (much needed already now IMO)
  • special aircraft like ie. firefighters (firefighting seaplane is my dream)
  • aerobatic aircraft
  • etc

Apart from that, AI airliners and transports could already give more immersion. :)

 

All in all I generally agree with Aburro's points above:

If we see this as a dynamic development, DCS could benefit greatly over time, to grow into something even bigger.

 

So to sum it up, I would definitely be interested in some special purpose civilian aircraft.

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fail to see how airliners will add immersion. We fight in warzones slinging AMRAAMs and dropping GBUs, there wouldn't be civilian traffic anywhere near us while we do this. Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 is the exception that proves the rule on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We fight in warzones slinging AMRAAMs and dropping GBUs, there wouldn't be civilian traffic anywhere near us while we do this. Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 is the exception that proves the rule on this.

Well.... they are way more flight that are done just hanging around with airliners than with bombs, IRL ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many points made already, but I will state my opinion as well: I'm all for civilian aircraft, but am honestly not sure they would sell as much as military aircraft (especially if they cost the same). However, I would gladly pay for a DCS PFM- and ASM-level helicopter (even an R22, though my favorite helicopter is the H135 from Airbus - and it even has a militarized version).

 

Pure civilian aircraft would have serious problems with the current state of DCS:World: lacking ATC, not enough places to fly, and more. I'm sure that enough attention would make ED consider improving those areas further, though.

Some people around here say those of us who want to fly civilian aircraft should play FSX/P3D/X-plane, but even payware aircraft don't compare to the DCS standards (not that I have looked into them that much). I've only flown a freeware EC135 in the X-Plane demo, and it clearly had somme FM issues. Plus, I love seeing the damage to the aircraft after a hard landing, when those sims will generally just stop the flight for a slighty heavy landing.

 

In the end, combat will be the main center of interest in DCS, but a few civilian aircraft can probably get in there for a good experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fail to see how airliners will add immersion. We fight in warzones slinging AMRAAMs and dropping GBUs, there wouldn't be civilian traffic anywhere near us while we do this. Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 is the exception that proves the rule on this.

 

Various warzones. From cold wars to hot. What about campaigns where you go from one state to another? What about combat missions across wide landscapes? What about those rare situations where civil and combat aviation cross paths directly (being rare doesn't make this less important at all, large scale war is rare today, but it's the subject of many DCS missions).

 

As far as map scale, I don't think it's an issue. Do a Pacific Ocean map. Vast area, yet it doesn't necessarily require an immense number of land objects. Fits for all kinds of aviation. Naval warfare or trips from California to Japan.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fail to see how airliners will add immersion. We fight in warzones slinging AMRAAMs and dropping GBUs, there wouldn't be civilian traffic anywhere near us while we do this. Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 is the exception that proves the rule on this.

 

Collateral damage, international indicents, targets of terrorism!

 

You guys should go ahead with whatever you are interested in. If the market likes it, they will buy it. If you guys are in it for the money, that will determine what you build.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do to the fact that the discussion started,

would you like to have more civil planes in DCS?

Could the name DCS still work if it could replace simulation titels like FSX?

 

What are your thoughts on this.

 

I myself think that the civil sector is a huge market and as it was posted, for helicopters there are a lot of missions planable in a civil enviroment.

 

 

 

COMBAT is always prefered over civilian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

COMBAT is always prefered over civilian.

 

That's a silly statement.

 

If it was prefixed with "I think" or "In my opinion" it would be fine.

 

Otherwise it's pie in the sky.

Kneeboard Guides

Rig: Asus B650-GAMING PLUS; Ryzen 7800X3D ; 64GB DDR5 5600; RTX 4080; VPC T50 CM2 HOTAS; SN-1 Pedals; VR = Pico 4 over VD Wireless + Index; Point Control v2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a silly statement.

 

If it was prefixed with "I think" or "In my opinion" it would be fine.

 

Otherwise it's pie in the sky.

 

It's safe to assume that something someone says is their opinion. Hopefully they aren't going around talking about other peoples opinions if they don't agree with them....unless they are brainwashed by advertising haha.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cockpit Spectator Mode

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most has already been said, here are my 2 cents anyway:

 

- I am not interested in civil only aircraft

- unarmed military aircraft are fine, armed ones are better

- Don't care about size, if you can make a realistic C-17 and people buy it, that's fine. Even though personally I am not that interested.

- There are lots of aircraft used both by the military and civilists, consider them before pure civil aircraft. I would be happy to buy a Cessna Skymaster, not so much a Cessna Skylane. A Super Puma Helicopter would be nice, although there are civil versions of it as well, much like the Bo-105. But then please: Military version before civil one in priority.

- Our maps are tiny. Some aircraft don't make much sense. Basically everything that is for long range.

- Some roles are not that interesting yet IMO, because of DCSW not natively supporting their roles to be actually useful, like dropping paratroopers or freight transport. If we could supply airfields by flying transporters there, thus spawning ground troops, that would be cool. If we could drop paras that actually do something, that would be cool as well. That's not simply possible in DCSW though.

 

So basically: I don't mind civil aircraft, as long as they make sense in the environment we have, but I prefer dual-use or pure military aircraft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One big advantage of bringing civilian types in, would be that we may start getting some scenery developers interested in coming over from FSX. I don't know how many are familiar with the ORBX developers who create scenery for FSX but developers of that quality would be a real coup for DCS World.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the past I've been strongly opposed to doing civilian aircraft as I thought it may take away from the military side, however I've changed my opinion on that. I think DCS as a whole would benefit from a little general aviation tossed in. DCS does not support large aircraft currently, so DCS: 747 is a terrible idea imho. But smaller, private aircraft and helicopters could eat into the FSX/P3D/XPlane crowd. DCS already has a reputation as a very good helicopter sim, so I would suggest any developer start there. The basic Cessna 172 would also be a good starting point.

 

With that said, this is more of a growth oriented thing, I don't think it would be commercially viable in the short term. I personally probably wouldn't buy much in the way of civilian aircraft and they'd have to be relatively cheap (under $20 at full price) to be appealing to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's safe to assume that something someone says is their opinion. Hopefully they aren't going around talking about other peoples opinions if they don't agree with them....unless they are brainwashed by advertising haha.

 

Well, when it's said like a factual statement, it looks a bit silly when it also is obviously inaccurate ;)

 

Mind you - there is a lot of that on forums.

 

Personally, I'm happy to use civvy sims for civvy aircraft and combat sims for combat aircraft, but I wouldn't be fussed in any way to see civilian aircraft in DCS World, just as I'm not bothered (and in fact also enjoy flying) combat aircraft in civilian type sims.

 

Why not? It would certainly attract more customers - I know that for a fact from what i have read on some MS FS developer's forums.

Kneeboard Guides

Rig: Asus B650-GAMING PLUS; Ryzen 7800X3D ; 64GB DDR5 5600; RTX 4080; VPC T50 CM2 HOTAS; SN-1 Pedals; VR = Pico 4 over VD Wireless + Index; Point Control v2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would prefer to have civilian aircraft in DCS for the following reasons:

 

1: The civilian sims are a mess using obsolete engines, graphics, setup GUIs etc., they're clunky, CPU heavy and completely unintuitive to setup. They allow the most inept third parties to develop 3rd rate modules, yes there are good ones, but the majority are floodware. ED would not allow this to happen in DCS

2: It would bring a lot more players to our favourite sim. This would bring more of the top notch devs, providing more maps, scenery, modules, professional ATC and all those things a handful of devs can't manage.

3: Players would get a much more realistic experience, having to use atc, IFF, navigation in busy skies

4: For me, having 1 great program providing all my sim needs is far better than one very good one (DCS) and 2 rather dated amateurish ones (P3D & FSX)

 

 

My 2c

My Youtube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqH078Ef0HENo01LF3xwIvA

Twitter: @CrashLaobi

All of my opinions are my own and are just opinions, as a result they as useless as the opinions of others!

 

My Specs: PC, Chair, Desk, Screen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS does not support large aircraft currently, so DCS: 747 is a terrible idea imho.

 

Just remember there is more to large planes than flying 10000000000 miles

 

http://science.nasa.gov/missions/sofia/

 

You couldn't simulate transatlantic flights on [current] DCS maps, but you could still fly a 747 around it and do something meaningful. If anything I'd take a DCS 747 to takeoff and land. Why not?

 

With that said, this is more of a growth oriented thing, I don't think it would be commercially viable in the short term. I personally probably wouldn't buy much in the way of civilian aircraft and they'd have to be relatively cheap (under $20 at full price) to be appealing to me.

This goes for everything. Some people don't care unless it's a helicopter. Some people don't care unless it's newer than 1990, some people don't care unless it's multirole, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the civil market as a whole was larger than some of the those niches that only buy a couple of modules.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Such as....?

Takeoff/landing practice, delivery/transfer flight, research program (could cover basically anything, like trying to determine flight envelope or investigate into a situation that lead to a crash, like the loss of engine(s)), use the 747 as part of counter terrorism exercise involving military or the police, airshow, etc.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So... you want to either do check rides or play "Mayday" the game?

 

It may just be me, but I enjoy fighting things that at least potentially can shoot back, flying up to fly next to a 747 and flying in formation with it while the 'terrorists' are 'subdued' doesn't exactly sound like a lot of fun when compared to doing pop up bombing attacks on SAMs.

 

Like I said before, if civvy only companies want to come over and produce jets, fine, but if there's ever any question between the Learjet flight model getting tweaked versus the Crusader's cannon jam logic getting fixed, not a moment should be delayed on that Crusader.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...