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So about the 'bar'....


Lixma 06

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ohhh, the infamous Fw bar, known from the sims of old.

 

Seriously, please hit the bloody bar and order a stiff one. And while you're downing it, let this stupid whine finally die. /THREAD

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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  • ED Team

Oh show me the way to the next FW bar... :D

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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  • 1 month later...

They're just modeling the cockpit as accurately as possible. Probably most Germans in it were taller than the DCS default head position so it didn't matter. You can always lean forward a few inches with TrackIR to see over it.

 

After picking up the Dora9 I consider it a non-issue.

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They're just modeling the cockpit as accurately as possible. Probably most Germans in it were taller than the DCS default head position so it didn't matter. You can always lean forward a few inches with TrackIR to see over it.

 

After picking up the Dora9 I consider it a non-issue.

 

 

 

Was probably long before you joined the Forum, was thread where is proved the Current "BAR" is inaccurate, when your half Revi is sitting in the blind Spot with slightes amount of G in Turns, wouldn't call it not a Issue.

 

 

Mainly a Problem with the Refraction of the Glas, its hard to simulate this, but running around and saying all good there is no Problem is also not that way it should be.


Edited by MAD-MM

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My understanding is (& I posted some photos I'd made to demonstrate it is so in an earlier thread) that the refraction should shift the image down to the bottom of what is currently the bar, but that (because there's no magic involved) you don't somehow get to magically see over the nose for the shot you're after.

If the sight is leading correctly, and it's below the bar as currently modelled, well even if the refraction were modelled, the sight would now be out the bottom of your view.

 

Like so:

attachment.php?attachmentid=205219&d=1551326198

 

where the left view is the real world, the middle view is where the refraction displaces the image, and the right is how ED have treated it (with the green being the 'bar').

In all cases, your field of view, and the point at which the sight passes out the image are the same...

Capture.thumb.PNG.a437de7d0a17624fd3c0f77d0c75da15.PNG


Edited by Weta43

Cheers.

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That's not my understanding of refraction. In this video, you see that the horizon stays the same and is not shifted down like in your example but you can see lower (eg from 03:43 where he shifts sideways).

 

 


Edited by ams999

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  • 1 month later...

From the video it is obvious that the refraction will shift the position of the objects. Just look at the white bar at around 4:34.

 

My question is, how it would compromise the aiming? The revi is on the inside of the glass, and you aim on a shifted picture presented though the refraction. It sounds like your aiming will be way off.

bar.JPG.c8a9b082e4365f849f90bd2f726add4b.JPG

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From the video it is obvious that the refraction will shift the position of the objects. Just look at the white bar at around 4:34.

 

My question is, how it would compromise the aiming? The revi is on the inside of the glass, and you aim on a shifted picture presented though the refraction. It sounds like your aiming will be way off.

 

Watch the video again.

 

You'll see that the shift depends on the distance of the objects to the viewer. Let's say the shift is 5 cm, then objects very close will vanish (the bar), objects a bit further will be noticably shifted down (the white railing or the cowling) while you already hardly see any noticeable shift at the house across the street let alone the horizon.

 

So at those distances the shift doesn't factor in anymore and aiming is not impaired (unless you try and shoot a fly on the windscreen).

"[...] because, basically, in this day and age, if you get to the merge and no one's died - it's not good for anybody." - Keith 'Okie' Nance
"Nun siegt mal schön!" - Theodor Heuss, September 1958

"Nobody has any intention of building a wall." - Walter Ulbricht, June 1961
"Russia has no plans to invade either Ukraine or any other country.
" - Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's ambassador to the EU, January 2022

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My understanding is (& I posted some photos I'd made to demonstrate it is so in an earlier thread) that the refraction should shift the image down to the bottom of what is currently the bar, but that (because there's no magic involved) you don't somehow get to magically see over the nose for the shot you're after.

If the sight is leading correctly, and it's below the bar as currently modelled, well even if the refraction were modelled, the sight would now be out the bottom of your view.

 

Like so:

attachment.php?attachmentid=205219&d=1551326198

 

where the left view is the real world, the middle view is where the refraction displaces the image, and the right is how ED have treated it (with the green being the 'bar').

In all cases, your field of view, and the point at which the sight passes out the image are the same...

 

No, it's not right. As you shift rays PARALLEL for, say, 50 mm, you will get this 50 mm shift throughout the whole range. It means, that you will see noticably shifted engine cowl and almost nothing shifted at 10m and absolutely nothing at 1000 m. It is the same story as for well known parallax effect in old cameras having a separate viewfinder with a frame adjusted parallel to the main lens axis. It gives exact frame positioning at few meters and farther, but for short range portrait it required noticable correction. Sometimes it were special corners along the main frame rectangle, sometimes this rectangle mask was mechanically couplied with the focus ring to compensate parallax .

And the cheapest cameras just informed users about this effect in their manuals.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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So are you going to model this effect? :D

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So are you going to model this effect? :D

 

If you ready to meet low performance because it requires double rendering with two cameras.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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If you ready to meet low performance because it requires double rendering with two cameras.

 

There is no need for that approach in a modern graphics engines.The effect can be baked in to the the materials in the model and rendered in the same pass. There still is a performance cost, Though it’s less of a performance hit than a than a window with in a window approach.

 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-us/Engine/Rendering/Materials/HowTo/Refraction

 

Also advances in real-time ray tracing are making real time refraction the of even less of a performance hit. Though proprietary software and hardware is required, like nvidia’s rtx.

 

I think it’s something that should be looked at as an optional toggle. Utilizing current techniques you would just have to load a different model with the effect baked into the canopy materials. Let the user decide if it’s to much of a hit. Then when engine moves to Vulcan the performance hit could be lowered even further.

 

Given the computing power of the current gen of graphics cards, I think most people could live with the performance of a well optimized implementation of refractionrefraction.


Edited by Curly
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