draconus Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I'd say anything other than 100% is asking for anomalies - that's logical. @Worrazen, how come your HW doesn't handle 100% trees? Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) I'd say anything other than 100% is asking for anomalies - that's logical. @Worrazen, how come your HW doesn't handle 100% trees? I was overdramatizing, but it lowers the FPS by 10, which is enough to make it lag very noticable and much less playable. It is reported, so the team will check what we have reported when they adjust. Sure, if they will re-chech this thread later fine, anyhow but I'm motivated to continue to dig into this anyway, might uncover something new, I'm already learned infact something new right now, we also need to be on the same page as the devs so we can even understand the fix once it comes, and vice versa. Okay so here's the videos, I'll update this as I go. Youtube degrades the quality significantly, the original quality was a 1080p downscale from 1440p and it looked great until youtube destroyed it practically. But the features we'll talk about should still be visible okay. Keep an eye out for the SHADE/SHADOW bands as well, theres 3 bands when more details are added as you close in, they're assymetric, there's also a lighting band which makes trees lit up and shine a bit, but in the lower ends of the Trees Visibility setting these distances are so truncated they're basically 100 meters apart or so, so you can see all of them in one sceen if you have it located and angled optimally, the thing is, that the higher level shading LODs seem to remove the effect of the lower level and while that's not a problem necessairly, but in this case you ADD more as you go higer level, this is most noticable in the end of the 4 band thingy where the shadows that were just added are completely removed prior to the highest level trees becoming visible, that's quite a weird one. It happens in cockpit too, it really isn't view mode specific to my research, and the LOD is always camera oriented, so if you zoom in (FOV in case of cockpit view) the LODs will adjust as if you have moved your camera that far further. Edited January 22, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman-Ed Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 What is your Trees Visibility, that's the most important number we need? As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it. In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting. Intel i9-9900KF @5.2GHz MSI Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon 32GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR3200 RAM MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio 40" Panasonic TH-40DX600U @ 4K Pimax Vision 8K Plus / Oculus Rift CV1 / HTC Vive Gametrix JetSeat with SimShaker Windows 10 64 Bit Home Edition [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it. Oh allright, good point, well, now we can do that when we know how it works and what's going on. In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting. There's several "annomalies" yes, I'd like to point them out even if we generally know, we need to point them out one by one to make sure it's all known otherwise the fix may not be complete. For example, there's this Shadow LOD change line going down too close that's very obvious and unpleasing, it affects tree shadows but it may not be part of the Tree system ... more later. Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) Okay here's what I did with an exaggerated low ForrestDistanceFactor setting, which makes it more obvious what's going on, this actually led me to uncover a number of things I'll explain later. From what I see, the LOD levels aren't linear, with the movement of the slider, but they're also not linear at either setting high or low, the high quality 3D trees only appear very close versus most of the forrest. Edited January 24, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) And one other thing here, that may not be part of tree system, there's a shadow LOD level around the player that affects tree shadows, but it's placed so that it's quite obvious and sometimes you have this line and keeps following you if you fly in a certian way, it makes the shadows softer and more realistic but less dark and in some cases so much that they almost seem to disappear with some objects, like pylons. I'm not sure yet if the disance of this changes when changing Tree Visibility, I think not. Can be skipped to 1:10 The thing is, it changes the shape quite a bit and it's a big big change in one sweep so this could be improved but it's I guess a minor thing. It's very precise, if I were to change the zoom level with mouse wheel it would go way back, so it took a few tries to get it right, to fly just about the right angle and zoom level. Edited January 24, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 The tree shadows (including buildings etc) on the 'default' DCS setting revert back to a flat shadow at a set lod distance, the transition is quite ugly being as it's so close to the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilbur81 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I feel like shadows in general are the Achilles' Heel of DCS FPS/Stuttering performance. i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - RTX 3080 12gb OC - 55 inch 4k Display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesinduck Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Still not fixed in 2.5.6 Intel Core i5 2500K, 12.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3, Z68X-UD3-B3, GTX 1080 (ZOTAC International), SSD 850 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxTwo Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Mmm yeah ok so this has been reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cro_mig_21 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 The trees are really ruining it. Hope for a solution soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpipe Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 And one other thing here, that may not be part of tree system, there's a shadow LOD level around the player that affects tree shadows, but it's placed so that it's quite obvious and sometimes you have this line and keeps following you if you fly in a certian way, it makes the shadows softer and more realistic but less dark and in some cases so much that they almost seem to disappear with some objects, like pylons. I'm not sure yet if the disance of this changes when changing Tree Visibility, I think not. Can be skipped to 1:10 The thing is, it changes the shape quite a bit and it's a big big change in one sweep so this could be improved but it's I guess a minor thing. It's very precise, if I were to change the zoom level with mouse wheel it would go way back, so it took a few tries to get it right, to fly just about the right angle and zoom level. So glad you captured this in a video, that line does my head in and i have meant to record it for a while. It is very obvious especially when low altitude in a viggen or heli. :thumbup: Please fix this ED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srhZSOC Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hi, just wondering if there was an update on this issue? I've been having what I think is the same issue with trees (and their shadows) consistently since starting DCS over a year ago. Came across this thread from google searches after installing the latest version of DCS stable and seeing it still happening. Would it be possible to have the option for trees split, so you that could could choose visibility and quality separately? I find trees to have a huge performance impact at when flying at low level. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to choose lower quality trees that draw consistently at all view distances. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 25, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2020 I will try and chase up the report. The issue in the above video is the border between cascade shadows and flat shadows. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz1004 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) I found a solution while working on my mod so might as well post it here too so ED can take a look. Normal maps on billboards are reversed. Red channel only. BTW, these shots are taken from inside cockpit of Ka-50. Not from F11 freecam. Edited August 4, 2020 by Taz1004 1 Better Smoke - Better Trees Caucasus - Better Trees Syria - Better Trees Mariana - Clear Canopy Glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 :thumbup: PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz1004 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Bit of an update on the flipped normal issue. Only the red channel on side views are flipped. If you take a close look at the images from my previous post, you'll see that top down flat plane is actually shadowing correct way. If you flip the red channel on whole normal map image, the flat plane will be backward and will stick out more. Don't even know how something like this happened in the first place. Tested at dawn, 2pm, and at sunset. Edited August 4, 2020 by Taz1004 Better Smoke - Better Trees Caucasus - Better Trees Syria - Better Trees Mariana - Clear Canopy Glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz1004 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Illustration of above. When red channel on whole normal map image was flipped. When red channel on side views are flipped. 1 Better Smoke - Better Trees Caucasus - Better Trees Syria - Better Trees Mariana - Clear Canopy Glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Great find Taz1004 :thumbup: Let's hope ED can use this to quickly correct this bug, because flying helo's is much less fun since trees look so awfully flat.. System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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