Magic Zach Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 What's the issue? I don't see a bar across the gunsight. I can see through it just fine. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1966 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) I really see no issue Either, its kind of just looking over the nose if the spit also, it gets in the way too, ... the lower to the cowling that the crosshair is, the more it makes it easer to pull lead with a fixed sight, the guns are aimed to the crosshairs, not the pilots line of sight. Edited June 11, 2019 by Andy1966 We are Virtual Pilots, a growing International Squad of pilots, we fly Allies in WWII and Red Force in Korea and Modern combat. We are recruiting like minded people of all Nationalities and skill levels. http://virtual-pilots.com/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogonaut Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 :doh::music_whistling:those people who dont see it and have no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 In spite of it already being reported, people are still being ignorant.. Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistking Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 The "Bar" is actually a mere lip. The coaming top actually comes almost to the very top of the Armour glass upper edge. All you see from the pilots perspective is a small lip. No massive bar. Seems to me all the various FS developers are using the same drawings that contain the same mythical alignment of the top forward edge of the Armour glass that is meant to "jut" up into the pilots line of sight. Its BS almost this entire lower forward edge lies below the coaming line... you just cant see it from the pilots view point. There are countless images and videos that show the pilots perspective ... but yet few Sims depict it correctly all slavishly display the Bar... then the inevitable argument about refraction is presented ... makes no difference if the bar is behind metal !! Hey Ivan, i don't completely understand what you mean. You say, that the the missing refraction was not the problem. So you think, that the model is wrong geometrically? I'm not saying that you are wrong and the model is correct, however i don't understand how there could be no visible bar without refraction. Let's say the armored glass is 10cm thick, then there is also a metal frame of 10cm. If you can't see the metal frame/bar on real life photos then this is because of refraction, or maybe because the plane in question had the armored glass removed and has therefore a very thin front glass. Or do you mean that the fuselage has an recess for the frame and therefore the "bar" sits lower in the fuselage? Then however it could still be seen from the cockpit if refraction was not a thing. The problem with your pictures is that they are photographic and by that are also affected by the refraction, so they prove that the "bar" is not visible for the pilot, but they don't prove that there is no bar at all. Hope that makes sense... My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I was trying to play with textures making transparent the half of outside of the frame. The texture in reddish colour. But the game interpret the transparent as black and I can't try this walkaround. I will try to post pictures here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Zach Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I just jumped into the 190. NOW I see what you guys were talking about. “Bar” isn't nearly the best way to describe it, and will only confuse people. It is the bottom piece of the canopy frame surrounding the armored glass. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Zach Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I was trying to play with textures making transparent the half of outside of the frame. The texture in reddish colour. But the game interpret the transparent as black and I can't try this walkaround. I will try to post pictures here.Sounds like an alpha channel. Pictures would help, yes. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Here is the capture ingame. The yellow colour and black marks was for identification of textures I want modify. I paint in transparent the half but ingame is black because I don't understand the alpha channel and stuff or maybe is black because anticheat reasons. But this represent my idea of solution for the "bar problem". My only concern is the 3d model of nose too high and you can see the motor and not the sky in front of you. A modificaion of 3d model with a lower nose woulf be necessary. Edited June 11, 2019 by Siegfried Add image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Zach Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Here is the capture ingame. The yellow colour and black marks was for identification of textures I want modify. I paint in transparent the half but ingame is black because I don't understand the alpha channel and stuff or maybe is black because anticheat reasons. But this represent my idea of solution for the "bar problem". My only concern is the 3d model of nose too high and you can see the motor and not the sky in front of you. A modificaion of 3d model with a lower nose woulf be necessary. Yeah, this is something out of the hands of texture artists. It looks like the Missing Texture is showing through on the inside of the frame there. I guess that's where you painted transparency. tl;dr, you can't paint transparency apparently, if it will reveal the Missing Texture underneath. This isn't anything too terrible though. Yes, it's annoying, and should be fixed (and will be apparently) but it doesn't impact visibility too bad. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 :doh::music_whistling:those people who dont see it and have no problem Same is true for those who keep this "issue" alive. :thumbup: PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted June 11, 2019 ED Team Share Posted June 11, 2019 I can not understand what is the point of this discussion... Seems that somebody breaks the open door trying to explain us what refraction is. At least for me, it was not an enigma since I was 5-6 years old and asked about broken spoon in a glass of tea. :D I guess the same is not a secret for any DCS graphics programmer. And there is no use to spend money making the real thick glass for the video. Just few sketches on a sheet of paper would suffice to explain the fact, that despite of true geometry the absence of refraction technology in rendering NEVER allows to imitate real refraction. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 The point is find a solution for, in absence of refraction, not to be the collimator with that stuff in middle. With a modification in 3d maybe, a middle point between real geometry and what the eye see. So easy as make the frame of windscreen half thick (yellow paint in my screenshot) and maybe move a little low the nose in the cockpit 3d model. Do you have a solution for this or our collimator will be ocluded forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Sorry for the quality of the edit the image, this way is like the windscreen result with a little modification: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted June 11, 2019 ED Team Share Posted June 11, 2019 The point is find a solution for, in absence of refraction, not to be the collimator with that stuff in middle. With a modification in 3d maybe, a middle point between real geometry and what the eye see. So easy as make the frame of windscreen half thick (yellow paint in my screenshot) and maybe move a little low the nose in the cockpit 3d model. Do you have a solution for this or our collimator will be ocluded forever? As we all know, every complex problem has a solution which is simple, direct, plausible—and wrong. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted June 11, 2019 ED Team Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Sorry for the quality of the edit the image, this way is like the windscreen result with a little modification: Fantasic! The problem is solved! But where is the cowling? Edited June 11, 2019 by Yo-Yo Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I paint it in green. Maybe moving the cowling low too Model is as without a glass now and is wrong too. Actualy the model have a texture which apparently we have a glass (or two, an exterior and other interior) there but is wrong because in real world you don't see the frame so thick. At least in the Dora os not as problematic like in A8 but one of them is wrong too. I only talk about a compromise. Because we have two ways to do this wrong, we can choose the lesser bad and not ocluding the collimator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistking Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Fantasic! The problem is solved! But where is the cowling? Yo-Yo, no need to be sarcastic. People here are trying to help. Could you have a look at those two pictures? Don't pay attention to the refraction sight line. I took this from the OP, but i'm not interested in the refraction, but in the model geometry, specifically the armored glass "block": It looks, as if the Glass frame sits to high over the cowling in the DCS model. I realize that the frame is not rendered. Of course it could be possible that the drawing is wrong. I'm not even sure that it's an Anton in the drawing, but i checked some other pictures of A-models and on those the glass also seems to be lower relative to the hinges. It's the same if you compare the cockpit view model in DCS to the external modell. In the internal model the block seems to be higher. Is this a modelling error, or is the perspective playing tricks on me? Compare the armored glass block in relation to the hinges... That's an honest question of mine. I'm sure you have better drawing than i could find on google... Edited June 12, 2019 by twistking My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 As we all know, every complex problem has a solution which is simple, direct, plausible—and wrong. Awwww... And because solution B is not perfect and kinda wrong, it's better to stay with solution A which is worse? Perfect way of going forward.... Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth. Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind. All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogonaut Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Same is true for those who keep this "issue" alive. :thumbup: no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted June 12, 2019 ED Team Share Posted June 12, 2019 Yo-Yo, no need to be sarcastic. People here are trying to help. Could you have a look at those two pictures? Don't pay attention to the refraction sight line. I took this from the OP, but i'm not interested in the refraction, but in the model geometry, specifically the armored glass "block": It looks, as if the Glass frame sits to high over the cowling in the DCS model. I realize that the frame is not rendered. Of course it could be possible that the drawing is wrong. I'm not even sure that it's an Anton in the drawing, but i checked some other pictures of A-models and on those the glass also seems to be lower relative to the hinges. It's the same if you compare the cockpit view model in DCS to the external modell. In the internal model the block seems to be higher. Is this a modelling error, or is the perspective playing tricks on me? Compare the armored glass block in relation to the hinges... That's an honest question of mine. I'm sure you have better drawing than i could find on google... Better is to ask the modeller who have the geometry and can show any view with or without perspective. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marduk879 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Make him come here and explain and clarify for us. Its not like we have his number and can call him anytime right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 The point is find a solution for, in absence of refraction, not to be the collimator with that stuff in middle. With a modification in 3d maybe, a middle point between real geometry and what the eye see. So easy as make the frame of windscreen half thick (yellow paint in my screenshot) and maybe move a little low the nose in the cockpit 3d model. Do you have a solution for this or our collimator will be ocluded forever?IIRC it was already done in the Dora, so I think yes, they have. Just modifying the whole 3D which is what implies isn't a quick task. If somebody can correct me, but I believe that's not an A-8? Anyway, the thread stands "reported", so they will be seeking a fix already. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistking Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) Better is to ask the modeller who have the geometry and can show any view with or without perspective. No need to prove anything to me. But it would be appreciated, if he could double check the geometry to be sure... And if you guys could come up with a good compromise for the "bar" even better... [...] If somebody can correct me, but I believe that's not an A-8? [...] You might very well be right, it's still viable as an example though, as on the A-8 the front canopy with the bulletproof glass seems to be similar. Maybe not exactly identical, but the relation between the hinges and the "block" seem to be the same... [...] Anyway, the thread stands "reported", so they will be seeking a fix already. [...] You are right. Let's wait and see... Edited June 12, 2019 by twistking My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Bridges Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I also wished there was a solution for this. The forward view through the windscreen looks so horrible with the thick iron bar in front. Does anyone believe Germans would have constructed a plane where the pilot does not see anything? Can the bar not be made transparent from the inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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