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Shouldn't there be a bit more of "lag" due to inertia?


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A recent video in youtube, not mine, that I link bellow, shows a user doing sudden inputs to the stick of the 109 K-4, and returning it to neutral.

 

 

I know it's probably something that would be difficult to reproduce IRL, but still, the sudden stop in roll whenever the stick is brought to neutral appears to me as having almost no sense of inertia - the aircraft instantly stops rolling...

 

 

Any ideas? Real numbers?

 

 

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Then you should watch the control indicator in the video.

 

 

Exactly my point too - he returns the stick to the trimmed neutral ( ailerons ), and not further opposite.

 

 

It's indeed a very fast return, and I doubt it could be done so fast IRL, but still, the 109 is not an Extra :-)

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My observations

1st roll speed is very very low

2nd at high air speed act like super dense material , probably dissipating any inertia in blink of an eye.

There is reference. Plane is lighter but roll rate is 100 times faster.

BTW stick in DCS looks like teleporting in to neutral position for me :P

I think Fw190 is worth checking this is fast roller.

I tried FW 190 it takes a little time to stop roll i used keyboard button for it.

I tested Bf109 in mission editor in slow motion. Despite fact that ailerons teleporting back to neutral position when keyboard is used plane do not stop roll instantly, it takes some time but much less time then in fw190. Clearly visible when using slower time scale.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Even so... if IRL the stick was suddenly returned to neutral liek he is doing, would the aircraft respond with no inertia?
Looks like you never flew a simulator with keyboard. Of course controls return to neutral point instantly, so aircraft stops either instantly to whatever input it had before. I don't see any incoherence between what controls actually do and aircraft response, it's just how it is when you try to fly with a keyboard, it was like that 30 years ago in firsts FS stuff and it is now. The rare thing here is seen anybody trying to fly with keyboard nowadays.

 

S!

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^ That's irrelevant and not related to the topic, however. The question is how fast the plane should react to ailerons being neutralized at a quick, constant rate, no matter what gaming controllers are used.

 

I guess it depends on how effectiveness of 109 ailerons changes with speed in current flight model. On the vid we can see the plane diving with pretty high IAS, and, with aero forces being proportional to velocity squared, maybe at 700 ailerons can be that effective in damping the inertia, I don't know. For comparison one could try doing the same at 200-300 to see what happens.

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@Art-J : good point!

 

@grafspee : you're comparing and aerobatic airplane with the 109 K-4.... For sure nothing similar in terms of MoI...

 

Like i typed later in my post,

Testes both fw190 and bf109 both do not stop instantly when stick is back in neutral position

additional to this when i used stick i could deflect ailerons much quicker then using keyboard plane's roll rate wasn't instant, it took some time to build up roll rate.

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Like i typed later in my post,

Testes both fw190 and bf109 both do not stop instantly when stick is back in neutral position

additional to this when i used stick i could deflect ailerons much quicker then using keyboard plane's roll rate wasn't instant, it took some time to build up roll rate.

 

 

:thumbup:

 

I confess I didn't see your Edit.

 

 

Ok, interesting. It's been a long time since I uninstalled DCS, so I really don't recall how it was in the 190D vs 109K4. This video the other day put me thinking about that again.


Edited by jcomm

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You're going back and forth all the time. Why?

 

I never understand why I even install comabt flightsims when I don't like air combat, and I don't have the time to play it....

 

OTOH, the fact that these sims, specially DCS and another competitor, have long offered flight dynamics that can go well beyond what I can get out of civil flightsim platforms, other than a professional one I use and never uninstalled :-) makes me return, from time to time, re-install, play again for a while.

 

They have huge footprints on my small SSD's and faint / old desktop, so, space for other projects often requires that I wipe my disks... And yes, I know there are cheaper disks these days :-)

 

Now looking fwd for MFS - let's see what it can bring...

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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  • 2 months later...
A recent video in youtube, not mine, that I link bellow, shows a user doing sudden inputs to the stick of the 109 K-4, and returning it to neutral.

 

 

I know it's probably something that would be difficult to reproduce IRL, but still, the sudden stop in roll whenever the stick is brought to neutral appears to me as having almost no sense of inertia - the aircraft instantly stops rolling...

 

 

Any ideas? Real numbers?

 

The 109 weighed around 6000 lbs, 2700kg. One of the smallest fighters.

 

Unfortunately the flight model in DCS is lacking any inertia and the mass appears non existent, as pertaining to take offs and landings.

 

DCS do some things really well and some things not so well. The M2k has input from the French air force and perhaps one reason why it's my favourite sim. The flight model demonstrates speed bleed in high alpha that's terrific! A very satisfying simulation.

 

The 109 is a disappointment to me. Take offs and landings are like flying a paper airplane. It's all over the place!

 

Just my twopenneth, but I think it needs some attention.

 

Cheers.

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I already tested it, most of the mass is very close to rotation center.

Bf 109 is not stopping instantly, it is just stopping very fast.

When i take off or land bf 109 goes smooth with nor problems.

I think problem is in lack of practice here.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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the flight model in DCS

 

This particular FM maybe, but the physics engine certainly does not. Fly the Mi-8 f.ex. for a while, and you'll notice there's plenty of inertia.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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I don't see why you guys expect a very small aircraft to fly like a boat. I think this is a case of desk jockeys expressing their ''feelings'' as if any of them have any idea what a 109 should actually feel like @@

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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