Yurgon Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Given the recent theory that a Tor SAM shot down the aircraft: Is there any plausible explanation why this might have happened? The aircraft was outbound from an international airport on a scheduled flight. Since we have some data on flightradar24.com, ADS-B seems to have been operational, and I would assume that the sqawk/transponder was also operational. The site of the last reported position is just 20 km from the airport. Why on earth would Iran launch a missile against a slow flying aircraft climbing out of Tehran, on a well known departure route, in direct extension of the runway heading of the biggest airport in country? I would assume that any airborne attack would lead into Tehran, not out of it. Plus, the Tor is a medium range system. If one was positioned so close to Tehran, again, it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to shoot at an object that's flying out of the capital instead of into it. Sure, there could always be operator error, and there could always be specific reasons for shooting down an aircraft on purpose that none of us are aware of. But can anyone come up with a plausible reason why Iranian air defenses would have considered firing at an aircraft in that location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester986 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 It's getting to be fairly obvious at this point it was a case of mistaken identity. I know no one is going to trust the US much in this situation but they're saying satellites caught the IR bloom of two missile launches followed by an impact there and spy planes saw a Tor lock the plane. They'll hand the data to Canada to make of it what they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester986 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Given the recent theory that a Tor SAM shot down the aircraft: Is there any plausible explanation why this might have happened? The aircraft was outbound from an international airport on a scheduled flight. Since we have some data on flightradar24.com, ADS-B seems to have been operational, and I would assume that the sqawk/transponder was also operational. The site of the last reported position is just 20 km from the airport. Why on earth would Iran launch a missile against a slow flying aircraft climbing out of Tehran, on a well known departure route, in direct extension of the runway heading of the biggest airport in country? I would assume that any airborne attack would lead into Tehran, not out of it. Plus, the Tor is a medium range system. If one was positioned so close to Tehran, again, it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to shoot at an object that's flying out of the capital instead of into it. Sure, there could always be operator error, and there could always be specific reasons for shooting down an aircraft on purpose that none of us are aware of. But can anyone come up with a plausible reason why Iranian air defenses would have considered firing at an aircraft in that location? Panic thinking they were under attack? Maybe they were poorly trained, maybe they were told civilian traffic was grounded. And you'd still fire on a perceived enemy even if it was flying away from you. It's tragic but hardly unique. There's quite a history of Airliners accidentally being shot down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester986 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It's getting to be fairly obvious at this point it was a case of mistaken identity. I know no one is going to trust the US Our intelligence professionals are not politicians. I think educated people all over the world understand that. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Given the recent theory that a Tor SAM shot down the aircraft: Is there any plausible explanation why this might have happened? The aircraft was outbound from an international airport on a scheduled flight. Since we have some data on flightradar24.com, ADS-B seems to have been operational, and I would assume that the sqawk/transponder was also operational. The site of the last reported position is just 20 km from the airport. Why on earth would Iran launch a missile against a slow flying aircraft climbing out of Tehran, on a well known departure route, in direct extension of the runway heading of the biggest airport in country? I would assume that any airborne attack would lead into Tehran, not out of it. Plus, the Tor is a medium range system. If one was positioned so close to Tehran, again, it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to shoot at an object that's flying out of the capital instead of into it. Sure, there could always be operator error, and there could always be specific reasons for shooting down an aircraft on purpose that none of us are aware of. But can anyone come up with a plausible reason why Iranian air defenses would have considered firing at an aircraft in that location? Breathtaking incompetence? Not the first time thats happened. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelina1 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Given the recent theory that a Tor SAM shot down the aircraft: Is there any plausible explanation why this might have happened? The aircraft was outbound from an international airport on a scheduled flight. Since we have some data on flightradar24.com, ADS-B seems to have been operational, and I would assume that the sqawk/transponder was also operational. The site of the last reported position is just 20 km from the airport. Why on earth would Iran launch a missile against a slow flying aircraft climbing out of Tehran, on a well known departure route, in direct extension of the runway heading of the biggest airport in country? I would assume that any airborne attack would lead into Tehran, not out of it. Plus, the Tor is a medium range system. If one was positioned so close to Tehran, again, it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to shoot at an object that's flying out of the capital instead of into it. Sure, there could always be operator error, and there could always be specific reasons for shooting down an aircraft on purpose that none of us are aware of. But can anyone come up with a plausible reason why Iranian air defenses would have considered firing at an aircraft in that location? Does the Tor have an automatic deployment configuration? Rather than being manually fired, it could be set to auto engage? Thinking that if cruise missiles and/or hostile aircraft were inbound, set it to auto. Then the crew hunkers down elsewhere to avoid the AA battery area since it's a target. I saw in another thread someone threw this out there. Regardless, this is such a terrible event. Thoughts and prayers to those family members having to survive this tragic loss. MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavnet Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Does the Tor have an automatic deployment configuration? Rather than being manually fired, it could be set to auto engage? Thinking that if cruise missiles and/or hostile aircraft were inbound, set it to auto. Then the crew hunkers down elsewhere to avoid the AA battery area since it's a target. I saw in another thread someone threw this out there. Regardless, this is such a terrible event. Thoughts and prayers to those family members having to survive this tragic loss. I also believe it was an accident based on incompetence. In auto mode, anti-aircraft systems are deadly because (even the most advanced) can hit any flying object without discriminating its nature. We remember what happened with SAM Patriot in the two Gulf wars. Perhaps, the battery operators will even have moved away in fear of being hit by some HARM. A prayer for the victims and their families for such an absurd tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holbeach Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Iranian official, says this morning, It was not a missile but mechanical failure of the aircraft and pilots attempted to turn back. .. I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy.. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavnet Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 To know the background. https://theaviationist.com/2020/01/10/a-brief-history-of-airliner-shoot-down-incidents-and-hoaxes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteladder Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Iran has now admitted to accidentally shooting down the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Iran bulldozed the chrashsite. Wonder why.... https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/irans-unthinkable-act-after-ukrainian-plane-crash/news-story/35e4437316f8783aff33f8459397ab8d?fbclid=IwAR0b8fCo_eWPV8LHc7IXRcCAS66_jqsRs_t_lVT7r4Ja7GCvz3r6Gcyb3Eo#.6wv24 Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 Given the recent theory that a Tor SAM shot down the aircraft: Is there any plausible explanation why this might have happened? The aircraft was outbound from an international airport on a scheduled flight. Since we have some data on flightradar24.com, ADS-B seems to have been operational, and I would assume that the sqawk/transponder was also operational. The site of the last reported position is just 20 km from the airport. Why on earth would Iran launch a missile against a slow flying aircraft climbing out of Tehran, on a well known departure route, in direct extension of the runway heading of the biggest airport in country? I would assume that any airborne attack would lead into Tehran, not out of it. Plus, the Tor is a medium range system. If one was positioned so close to Tehran, again, it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to shoot at an object that's flying out of the capital instead of into it. Sure, there could always be operator error, and there could always be specific reasons for shooting down an aircraft on purpose that none of us are aware of. But can anyone come up with a plausible reason why Iranian air defenses would have considered firing at an aircraft in that location? Same reason USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flight 655* People panic under stress. Remember the FAA had told US civilian aircraft to exit the area, and both Al Jazeera and at least 1 website had reported that B-52's had left Diego Garcia for Iran. They'd have been waiting for something inbound... *in case you don't remember, Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed. The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holbeach Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 A Ukrainian aircraft which crashed earlier this week in Iran had flown close to a sensitive military site belonging to the elite Revolutionary Guards and was shot down unintentionally due to human error, the Iranian military said in a statement read on state TV on Saturday. The responsible parties would be referred to a judicial department within the military and held accountable, the statement said. All 176 people on board were killed in the crash. The Iranian military statement expressed condolences to the families of the victims. The United States and Canada had said that the plane was shot down, a claim Iran had initially denied. .. I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy.. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 RIP to all the victims and thoughts for their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napa Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Tragic! :( Hopefully something like this doesn't happen again. RIP to all victims and my condolences to their families. Intel i7 12700k / Corsair H150i Elite Capellix / Asus TUF Z690 Wifi D4 / Corsair Dominator 32GB 3200Mhz / Corsair HW1000W / 1x Samsung SSD 970 Evo Plus 500Gb + 1 Corsair MP600 1TB / ASUS ROG Strix RTX 3080 OC V2 / Fractal Design Meshify 2 / HOTAS Warthog / TFRP Rudder / TrackIR 5 / Dell U2515h 25" Monitor 1440p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Tragic! :( Hopefully something like this doesn't happen again. RIP to all victims and my condolences to their families. Sadly I think those things will happen again and again if idiots are in charge on at least one or worse both sides. The ones to blame are imho not the officer who had to make a splitt second decision but the two clowns who's names we all know. Innocent Blood on their hands is their pay, what a dirty show. Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The Iranians blame the United States for the accident because of the heightened tensions. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The Iranians blame the United States for the accident because of the heightened tensions. Maybe they need to be a little more introspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The airlines should learn from this as well... there are times when it is best to just stay on the ground. Lobo's DCS A-10C Normal Checklist & Quick Reference Handbook current version 8D available here: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/172905/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I wonder why the airspace is not closed to civilian traffic during conflicts. Ukraine, Syria now Iran. Extremely sad news, and I am personally appalled. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Flight radar data in pictures. https://twitter.com/statuses/1215889858302021633 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Flight radar data in pictures. https://twitter.com/statuses/1215889858302021633 Looks like dead link. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I wonder why the airspace is not closed to civilian traffic during conflicts. Ukraine, Syria now Iran. Extremely sad news, and I am personally appalled. There was no real on going conflict in Iran. USA didn't perform any strike in Iran... Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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