M-2000C compared to F-16C Block 50

So as we have read, the F-16C block 50 will be coming out this year, which excites me of course, I remember playing the iMagic F16 or maybe it was Jane's game way back when.

My question is how closely does the F-16CJ compare to the Mirage 2000C? I know there is a weapons system and ordinance difference, but in terms of maneuverability, speed, capability is it really that different? Also what does the J stand for in F-16CJ name?

Thanks!

So as we have read, the F-16C block 50 will be coming out this year, which excites me of course, I remember playing the iMagic F16 or maybe it was Jane's game way back when... Thanks!

Where did you read this? ED said they would work on an F-16 after the F-18 is finished. But I don't remember having read it will be coming this year. Source? :huh:

Guess I got it wrong, didn't read it anywhere else. It does say that it is well into development, so I just guessed it could be.

Also what does the J stand for in F-16CJ name?

 

Thanks!

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3745350&postcount=164

Where did you read this? ED said they would work on an F-16 after the F-18 is finished. But I don't remember having read it will be coming this year. Source? :huh:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3725964&postcount=1

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3726389&postcount=17

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3735501&postcount=177

This is what Chizh wrote in the newsletter on January 4th:

"Our next marquee title from the Eagle Dynamics studio will be the famous F-16C multi-role fighter! An aircraft we’ve long wanted to simulate, we are excited to bring this legendary aircraft to the skies of DCS World. The F-16C is already well into development alongside the F/A-18C, and both aircraft share significant technology that will benefit both.

Specifically, we will be offering the F-16CJ Block 50 variant that includes the HARM anti-radar missile and HARM Target System (HTS) pod, laser- and GPS-guided munitions, advanced air-to-air systems like the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) and AIM-9X and AIM-120 air-to-air missiles, data link systems, Sniper targeting pod, AN/APG-68 radar, and other systems."

Here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3735513#post3735513. Well, I wouldn't be sad if it were released in 2019, too. :D

It's a 4+ gen, with fox3 and helmet mounted sight, a way more modern than the m2000c version simulated by razbam.

Where did you read this? ED said they would work on an F-16 after the F-18 is finished. But I don't remember having read it will be coming this year. Source? :huh:

Inviato dal mio SM-J530F utilizzando Tapatalk

In a gun dogfight, both would be quite on eye height. Nearly same turnrates.

In a IR fight, the F-16 has a big advantage because of the JHMCS.

In a BVR fight, the F-16 has a big advantage because of the Aim-120.

However, we need to wait and see the radar, cause I'm thinking that the Aim-120 is well overrated, and the S530 underrated. So if you have a good baguette pilot, things could get worse very fast for the F-16...

Mirage 2000C is from the same timeframe as F-16A (first flight 1978 vs 1976)

S530 is similar to Sparrow of the same period

The F-16 C block 50 we will get is a late 1990's iteration, multirole.

A comparable Mirage would be the M2000-5 , mostly air air, delivered in the 90s , with new radar, and MICA missiles (which are similar to aim-120, and exist in IR and EM (Fox3) versions))

RAZBAM wrote they are planning (long term) this version as well.

If you are asking purely about flight characteristics, as far as I know:

- Mirage is faster, especially in higher altitudes.

- However, F-16 should accelerate better, by a good margin. And this matters more in a dogfight.

- Mirage's instantaneous turn rate is better by a respectable degree, again especially at higher alt.

- F-16 should be better at sustained maneuvering a bit, probably also in vertical maneuvers.

I hear/read that Mirage 2000 is, depending on the circumstance, one of the few other 4th gen fighters that give F-16 a particularly hard time in dogfights. But DCS dogfights tend to happen down low, and F-16 should be more than a match there.

Aside from that, avionics and weaponry, as well as payload wise, F-16CJ is much newer and much ahead of Mirage 2000C.

These are all from the corner of my head though, more document delved fellows, feel free to correct any misconceptions I may have said above :)

This is what Chizh wrote in the newsletter on January 4th:

 

"Our next marquee title from the Eagle Dynamics studio will be the famous F-16C multi-role fighter! An aircraft we’ve long wanted to simulate, we are excited to bring this legendary aircraft to the skies of DCS World. The F-16C is already well into development alongside the F/A-18C, and both aircraft share significant technology that will benefit both.

 

Specifically, we will be offering the F-16CJ Block 50 variant that includes the HARM anti-radar missile and HARM Target System (HTS) pod, laser- and GPS-guided munitions, advanced air-to-air systems like the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) and AIM-9X and AIM-120 air-to-air missiles, data link systems, Sniper targeting pod, AN/APG-68 radar, and other systems."

 

Here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3735513#post3735513. Well, I wouldn't be sad if it were released in 2019, too. :D

Yeah it reads like that the F18 is the testbed for the F16 in terms of most of the technologies, and if released as EA it would likely be near the same developmental level as the F18 is at that point. Or interestingly they might release it near complete if they wait till the hornet is basically done. But thats just pure speculation on my part.

Thanks for the replies everybody!

It is like comparing the current Mirage 2kC with the F/A 18 Hornet basically, the latter is a 15 years more recent aircraft with newer avionics.

Hopefully we can get a Mirage 2000-5 at some point, that would be a good match for the F16 that we will get.

Would be nice to have a Panavia Tornado at some point as well, i really like the machines of 1970/1980s, they hit the sweetspot for me since BVR combat was yet to become the norm.

What this sim is lacking IMO is a modern high fidelity Russian aircraft of this period :/ MiG 29 or at least a MiG 31 would be amazing and give any plane a run for their money since no plane would be able to fly as high and catch it at Mach 3, could be very interesting.

M-2000C has short leg, 530 missile can hardly win the 120B&C

It is like comparing the current Mirage 2kC with the F/A 18 Hornet basically, the latter is a 15 years more recent aircraft with newer avionics.

 

Hopefully we can get a Mirage 2000-5 at some point, that would be a good match for the F16 that we will get.

 

Would be nice to have a Panavia Tornado at some point as well, i really like the machines of 1970/1980s, they hit the sweetspot for me since BVR combat was yet to become the norm.

 

What this sim is lacking IMO is a modern high fidelity Russian aircraft of this period :/ MiG 29 or at least a MiG 31 would be amazing and give any plane a run for their money since no plane would be able to fly as high and catch it at Mach 3, could be very interesting.

In short: :thumbup:. Precisely and exactly.

With best regards.

It is like comparing the current Mirage 2kC with the F/A 18 Hornet basically, the latter is a 15 years more recent aircraft with newer avionics.

 

Hopefully we can get a Mirage 2000-5 at some point, that would be a good match for the F16 that we will get.

 

Would be nice to have a Panavia Tornado at some point as well, i really like the machines of 1970/1980s, they hit the sweetspot for me since BVR combat was yet to become the norm.

 

What this sim is lacking IMO is a modern high fidelity Russian aircraft of this period :/ MiG 29 or at least a MiG 31 would be amazing and give any plane a run for their money since no plane would be able to fly as high and catch it at Mach 3, could be very interesting.

We all agree with you, but you won't see a modern russian bird in the near future, best hope so far is the Raz mig23, and its pretty likely it won't have the GCI components to make it doctrinally useful. Same for the 2000-5, for different reasons.

And there is definitely a contingent of folks that want more 70's and 80's planes but the trend thus far is on the "most modern" presumably for the munchkin aeroquake kids.

Same for the 2000-5, for different reasons.

What do you mean ?

We all agree with you, but you won't see a modern russian bird in the near future, best hope so far is the Raz mig23, and its pretty likely it won't have the GCI components to make it doctrinally useful. Same for the 2000-5, for different reasons.

 

And there is definitely a contingent of folks that want more 70's and 80's planes but the trend thus far is on the "most modern" presumably for the munchkin aeroquake kids.

Meh, the AirQuake or even MP population altogether is too small to drive dev decisions really. However it's easier to handicap yourself via weapon or system limitations than it is to improvise something later. I.E. you can simulate a F-16A by not using AMRAAMS or other modern tech, but it's kind of hard to simulate something you don't have at all :p With that in mind, I agree to start at the top unless there is a particular incentive otherwise :p

Yeah I get the do the cool guy plane, and then handicap it. It "sorta" works at a high level on the cold war server, but even there there are problems. You can't "Handicap" the radar modes the F16C has vs the F16A radar. Or INS/GPS etc. Sure. You can not have spamrams on the server, or aim9x or jdams. But its still and F16C, with a better engine, UI, radar, etc and not a 16A.

At the end of the day, all the DCS hype aside, they don't do a good job of simulating "modern" air combat which is heavily dependent on things like EW and datalinks and advanced sensors. None of which are modeled well in DCS to begin with. At best I think they could do 70's and 80's era combat, and do it well. Plus that was the era where WVR combat was still a plausible thing compared to modern air combat, where anyone closing into WVR is dead almost instantly.

Look at the recent Indo/Pak exchange for what "modern" looks like and compare that to what we can actually model in DCS.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. 70s-80s is the best ''modern'' era, for gameplay purposes, everything after that gets grossly complicated and not really feasible to simulate. Even by the 70s it was becoming so, if you remember the level of e-war in Vietnam.

Modern war is he who sees first kills first, with minimal opportunity for survival if you have been engaged. In a way, the high intensity, over in minutes combat presented in an RTS is closer to real life than people think. The speed and firepower of a modern military is difficult to over emphasise, casualties come fast and hard until one side is used up. The era of months/years long wars like we saw in the 40s are over. I have heard before regarding the Cold War ''Red Tide'' in Europe, the bulk of the fighting would happen in the first two or three days, with everything after that a glorified mopping up operation for whoever won.