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DCS WWII Map Discussion


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Can´t wait to see the new weather/cloud system on the map. One thing that could be improved is the blending of the radius of trees. Now it is painfully clearly visible aka the LOD circle of trees. This is on all maps, not only Normandy.

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Well, though not perfect, rendering trees on DCS Normandy map when LOD is changing is IMHO much better than in the other WWII sim that I cannot name here...

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Why among all WW2 simulators is the African Campaign always brutally ignored? There is so much to be done with that area and honestly, with the tech DCS world has going right now, should not be hard to make a map for. If you dig into history with minimal effort, there is a lot of WW2 aviation history that was very prevalent at that time and would make an amazing sim experience. Especially if the weather was simulated accurately.

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Why among all WW2 simulators is the African Campaign always brutally ignored? There is so much to be done with that area and honestly, with the tech DCS world has going right now, should not be hard to make a map for. If you dig into history with minimal effort, there is a lot of WW2 aviation history that was very prevalent at that time and would make an amazing sim experience. Especially if the weather was simulated accurately.

 

Having the right assets is a start, many uniforms were different colour, many cars and tanks had different modifications to them as did aircraft and the bf109 trop and the spitfire with the dust filter are good examples of this.

 

Then there is also the area itself, a good area with a fare amount of detail would have to be chosen because otherwise the only way to navigate would be dead reckoning and I feel a lot of people find that boring when they have ti fly long distance with not a lot to look at.

 

I feel like most of the time sims go for europe and the Pacific due to it largely having the most amount variety in assets used and therefore there is a lot more leeway with details.

 

Edit: i for one would love to see Africa campaign recreated however the question is how much would they really make off it? At the end of the day it's a business and people are already hesitant to get normandy and assets pack as well as a module to fly because that can be around 100usd alone.

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Found this error on the line somewhere between Bernay and Evreux:

Normandy-err-001.thumb.jpg.dbe410b2f103f3eba83bbd05e77bb666.jpg

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I compared the DCS Normandy with map from 1940s used for Kneeboard:

The discussed cities are not there - see attachment

According to the DCS map these should be fairly large towns.

 

Link to the Hi-res map: HERE

 

As far as I could tell, Urga Media did not use an era map to create any of their map, nor did they look at any of the many thousands of photos to be found... everywhere.

 

I found this to be a very good source for maps in a scale which I believe would be useful for navigating: University of Texas Libraries - Perry-Castañeda Library Map Collection.

 

Navigate to:

- Left side menu: Europe

- Main page: France Maps

- Main page - Topographic Maps: 1:100,000 - France Series M661 (GSGS 4249), U.S. Army Map Service, 1943- This series covers most of France

- Map sheet index at the top

 

I downloaded all the maps for the Normandy area long ago, but aside from finding them interesting for themselves, I would find it impossible to use them in DCS. One example is Falaise, the location of some of the hardest fighting and one of the most decisive battles of the invasion.

 

This is a section of the F10 map in DCS about 30 x 12 km

attachment.php?attachmentid=223949&stc=1&d=1577625083

 

and the same area on sheet F7 Caen-Falaise from the above site

attachment.php?attachmentid=223950&stc=1&d=1577625121

 

How can you tell that they are of the same exact size area you might ask. The F10 map leaves very little reference of any use (which is the ef-ing point really), but not the "town" to the east - Ners. It took me a freaking long time to find it on the topological map, but it's there. Follow the main road to the east out of Falaise, which passes through Fresne la Mere; just past there you find Ners. There are dozens of other towns around Falaise with more houses and a larger area, but Ners is presented as having some kind of prominence, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

 

Let's take a close look at Falaise itself.

attachment.php?attachmentid=223951&stc=1&d=1577625731

What prominent features can be seen?

- There is a train station in the city center. In DCS the rail lines do not even enter the town.

- To the north-west of the station is a church with steeple, also directly to the north on the river, and two to the south-east. None appear on the DCS map.

- The contour lines are 10m. We see next to the church north of the station that the river is at 62m elevation, and we see that Falaise is in a valley. How prominent is the valley. To the south-east is a hill raising to 167m from 62m. That's a 100m difference in about 5km. To the north, between Aubigity and Versainville is another hill raising to 159m, but closer and more steep. These are pretty prominent features of the city. They must be easily recognizable in DCS... but this is what it looks like in DCS from the center of Falaise looking to the north

attachment.php?attachmentid=223952&stc=1&d=1577625891

 

Here's a picture I found from down by the river looking out toward the rim of the valley

attachment.php?attachmentid=223961&stc=1&d=1577627918

 

No train station, no rail lines, no churches with steeples (no churches at all), no river, and no valley.

 

And don't get me started on Omaha beach, or St. Mere Eglise.

1552756902_FalaiseDCSF10Map.thumb.png.966c3ca742802c95b3880fa6b212a24d.png

1700116795_Falaise100kMap.thumb.jpg.bb5e942cbf7cfe6e5948a6a58464ba20.jpg

1122778268_Falaise100kMapCloseup.thumb.jpg.8b0f4a16ab03d2f67be7d75b80819ca0.jpg

747088048_Falaisein-Game.thumb.jpg.42c65b918727a43793290bdf87b1b65e.jpg

view_falaise_calvados_france_by_hubert61_d5yufta-fullview.thumb.jpg.a2e073052dbc7036efe307f7121f6286.jpg


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It is sad that such a relatively small map as the Normandy has so many inaccuracies comparing to the real world :-/

 

Though the new map upgrade is a good thing, IMHO the map shows still too many faults. Not only geographical ones but also graphical. It is very distracting to see such an abundance of ugly connected textures, like plain bright green textures placed on many different places e.g. on the borders of forests and surrounding fields or just between field textures...

 

Some field textures ending in the sea (e.g. on the north west islands) or they are frequently not properly connected to other texture, rivers etc... Yes, there are some very nice 3D additions like Saint-Michel or Atlantic fortresses but this cannot hide the impression of the somewhat hastily creation of the map as a whole project. To tell the truth, the map reminds me very much another recently published map by the same company for another WWII sim...

 

Let's hope that the new DCS WWII maps are prepared with more love and enthusiasm (and hopefully not by Ugra media).

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It appears to me that they simply used modern day Google maps as their basis. Look at Falaise in satellite mode. It resembles the DCS map Falaise greatly, but nothing like the era map.

 

I know there are some kinds of plugins for Google maps or Earth to dump the terrain heights in a format to build maps for some game engines. In fact I was once tester for a project doing that to build their Normandy maps. Being that it was an FPS the terrain was highly accurate, and building design and placement was done through era maps and photos. Some of the maps were incredibly accurate.

 

For DCS that much detail would mostly be lost to speed and altitude. But landmarks are landmarks. Church steeples, factory smoke stacks, very large buildings like train stations or stadiums, bridges and rivers are all landmarks that should be highly recognizable, and most of them are simply missing.

 

One of the most iconic landmarks on all of Normandy is the Ste. Mere Eglise church. It is not only the most prominent structure in the entire small city, but is also fairly unique in its architecture. The roads again were taken from google maps, and as with so many small cites, major roads were re-routed away from the city centers, which is far from was was found in the 40's.

 

IMHO this is what happens when you hire someone to do something in which they actually have no interest. ED apparently left them to do as they wished and had equally as little interest in accuracy, because I can see no effort having been take to evaluate the map for accuracy.

 

Let's hope the new western European map will be more promising.

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IMHO this is what happens when you hire someone to do something in which they actually have no interest.

 

Yes, that is precisely my feeling.

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same can be said for the RAF stations in the south of England …

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It appears to me that they simply used modern day Google maps as their basis. Look at Falaise in satellite mode. It resembles the DCS map Falaise greatly, but nothing like the era map.

 

I know there are some kinds of plugins for Google maps or Earth to dump the terrain heights in a format to build maps for some game engines. In fact I was once tester for a project doing that to build their Normandy maps. Being that it was an FPS the terrain was highly accurate, and building design and placement was done through era maps and photos. Some of the maps were incredibly accurate.

 

For DCS that much detail would mostly be lost to speed and altitude. But landmarks are landmarks. Church steeples, factory smoke stacks, very large buildings like train stations or stadiums, bridges and rivers are all landmarks that should be highly recognizable, and most of them are simply missing.

 

One of the most iconic landmarks on all of Normandy is the Ste. Mere Eglise church. It is not only the most prominent structure in the entire small city, but is also fairly unique in its architecture. The roads again were taken from google maps, and as with so many small cites, major roads were re-routed away from the city centers, which is far from was was found in the 40's.

 

IMHO this is what happens when you hire someone to do something in which they actually have no interest. ED apparently left them to do as they wished and had equally as little interest in accuracy, because I can see no effort having been take to evaluate the map for accuracy.

 

Let's hope the new western European map will be more promising.

 

Great to get your feedback, but please don't be insulting to the team, they have put a lot of passion and work into the Normandy terrain.

 

Thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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and we do appreciate the work that is done, we just wish it would be improved …

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"IMHO"s

 

Well IMHO the map is a reasonable approximation of 1940's Normandy. Folks can of course nitpick all they want, but I'll frankly speaking rather use the map than complain about it, especially now that its performance has been improved a lot.

 

All of the above just IMHO, though.

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Found this error on the line somewhere between Bernay and Evreux:

 

Thanks this one has been reported

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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Well IMHO the map is a reasonable approximation of 1940's Normandy. Folks can of course nitpick all they want, but I'll frankly speaking rather use the map than complain about it, especially now that its performance has been improved a lot.

 

All of the above just IMHO, though.

 

:smartass:

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I guess it depends on what you wnat the map to do - it gives you a map with enough atmoshere and general accuracy to build and fly convincing & immersive missions.

 

It may not give you enough detailed accuracy to rebuild every actual historic mission that was ever flown, but the reality is for all your detailed historic recreation, the moment the MP community takes off (or your AI wingman), all resemblance to the historic mission disappears anyway...

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I'm curious to understand what the purpose of the new Channel Map is. As stated it feels like too much of an overlap of the Normandy map. Now if it has SE England coverage including London, with an intention of allowing for BoB once appropriate warbirds are built, I could be very excited. But otherwise, it just feels like this development effort could have gone towards a new arena, like Germany, or the Eastern Front.

 

I'll look forward to hearing more about it as development progresses though.

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Stated elsewhere is a comment that there’s no overlap

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To be honest from the little I'm understanding and I very much doubt I have it right, it either feels like we're being conned to buying the same thing twice, or we were conned buying Normandy for essentially the same thing to be released free, or, it's so small it's going to be worthless.

 

What time frame is this map supposed to be anyway? We already have the date anathema with the Normandy map and the planeset we have. It couldn't have been less incongruous at this point to have had a Nazi moon base map.

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Otherwise there would certainly be overlap, as everything from Lydd and west is on the Normandy map.

 

No it isn't.

 

Have you flown over those areas you describe on the Normandy map? Tried to navigate using VFR rules and a period map?

 

None of them, outside an area between Avranches and Rouen E-W or Cherbourg and Fler N-S have any urban areas, or rivers, roads or railways that reflect prototype.

 

The Normandy map areas that will be covered by the new Channel map are all to a very low detail, and seem to be provided more to allow a reasonable scenic representation at distance when flying at 20K + ft, they are of very little use for operations against ground targets, and look particularly sterile down low.

 

Would a n Ardennes/Western Germany theatre map have made more sense for the plane set?

 

Yes.

 

However, the Spitfire, Mossie, Fw 190A-8 would all fit nicely for an April-September 44 scenario.

 

The planned AI Bf 109G would help flesh out this scenario, and earlier: similarly the Fw 190A-6, though naturally limiting to PvP play with no flyable German types for pre-April 1944.

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Was I the only one under the impression that the new map would be free? Now the newsletter mentions a preorder. Probably a misunderstanding from my part, I’ll preorder on day 1, although I wish it would cover a larger area for USAAF operations. The screens look amazing though, looking forward to it.

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