What technology/tools to use for building cockpit?

Hi guys,

 

 

I am thinking of starting to play with electronics and DCS World. The aim is to find out in a practical way how difficult it is to build some elements (switch, rotary switch, LED) of DCS cockpit before making a decision on going to build a full blown cockpit or not (don’t know yet what I would build but my small scale testing will be using A10C).

 

I know little to nothing about electronics but can write some python under Linux at beginner level and have done a bit of C# in the past (don’t remember much of it now) also I have a RPi at home which I use to host Kodi (OSMC). That is to say that my general knowledge is pretty low but not null and I know that I should expect a steep learning curve and feel I am ready to take on the challenge.

 

I am trying to find out in general what are viable options (technology + hardware) for building a DCS World home cockpit.

 

Even though I will only be testing with a few buttons I have to go for a solution that would scale in case I want to build the full size. I have found some reference to SIOC (I am not sure if those are still selling), Leo Bodnar, Arcaze (even some people building their own circuits) but it looks like those days DCS-BIOS is what most people use so I am thinking of giving a try to the examples here https://github.com/dcs-bios/dcs-bios/blob/master/Scripts/DCS-BIOS/doc/userguide.adoc first.

 

So for a DCS-BIOS/Arduino solution there are some thing I am not clear on

 

• It claim to interface with export.lua and advise on using UDP but in example the Arduino Uno doesn’t have network interface but USB. Later I find some reference to serial/COM but there is no serial interface on the board either. Is the USB emulating serial?
  
• For a full blown cockpit I guess several Arduino will be required, correct? I am asking because to me, using hardware that has network interface would have the advantage of not requiring multiple USB connections to the PC.
  

I will not hide to you that my initial search were around using RPi as it seemed to have a more suitable environment for my current skills (Linux, Python) but the board seem to be limited with I/O so in essence do not seem to be scalable. Furthermore I found an example in the forum where someone was using RPi but would still use DCS-BIOS/Arduino alongside. Is RPi a no go for full cockpit build? Also I am not yet clear on advantage/disadvantage of using RPi over Arduino for DCS cockpit build. Maybe someone could share some light on this for me?

 

Sorry for this long post, I just want to make sure I head in the right direction from the start. I might have missed some other way/technology to build a DCS cockpit so don’t hesitate to mention them to me if you find it worth to have a look. My aim is to keep simple(if at all possible), scalable and have some exposure to programming (preferably python but open otherwise).

 

Before buying anything I will wait for some feedback in the meantime I will do a crash course on electronics as it look like I will really need it.

Hi Petardo,

On these forums you will find all the answers you are looking for, and some you aren't! There are so many ways to build a pit, and most have been done. See what others have done, what levels of tech used, and see where to go. Start simple and humble, else you will get disheartened. As your skills develop, you will investigate more, and experiment more.

There are lots of ready made solutions, Arduino, Leo Bodnar, etc. Depends what you want to start with, and where you want to end up.

 

Good Luck!

 

Mole

Home cockpits tend to be long projects, and as you've already noticed, interfacing hardware tends to have a short "product life span". Over the years I've watched many people struggle with items that are no longer supported and/or no longer produced.

 

With that in mind, Arduino has substantial appeal. It is such a versatile and successful module that it has a massive user base and is very likely to be around for a long time. It has the additional advantages of many, free online tutorials, low cost clones, multiple suppliers, and the existence of a flight sim specific code base in the form of DCS-BIOS.

Welcome Petardo.

 

I have been running with joystick controller boards and it has worked nicely for a long time. Recently I started to convert to DCS-BIOS as it gives a lot of options to the pit which I didn’t have before.

 

Now take into account that I am only in the beginning of the conversion so I may have to eat some of my words later on. I can imagine there is a lot of different ways of doing this. This is my current setup idea:

 

I aim to have one or more Arduino Mega talking to DCS via USB. Ian (DCS-BIOS’ father) has a small piece of software which to the best of my knowledge is the link between DCS and the USB port.

The Mega will act as communication master for the pit over RS-485. For each of the pit panels I aim to have one Arduino Nano per panel communicating over RS-485. I may actually change some of the individual board controllers into Mega’s to get more I/O’s. Yes is should be possible to make I/O expansion but I haven't ventured into that yet.

 

So far I have about 8 panels running on RS-485 with one Master; Electrical power panel, Aux. Avionics Panel, Light Control Panel, SAS panel, LASTE panel, AHCP, Fuel control panel and Landing gear panel. The latter still need to get a stepper drive running for the flap indication though.

 

I have made a small communication board out of prototype PCB which holds the RS-485 chip and the connection cable. The Arduino is plugged into a small pre-manufactured pcb which has screw terminals that eases the connection to toggle switches.

 

I also use this board for holding MOSFET’s on those boards I need output that needs more juice then the Arduino can provide. A good example of that is the SAS panel where I use 5 MOSFET’s, one for each magnetic held toggle switch (12VDC) and one for the lamp (5VDC).

 

Bear in mind I do not hold any programming skills I find the DCS-BIOS setup fairly easy to work with. With the setup of one Arduino per pit panel allows me to remove a panel since they are individually addressed and work on it while the remaining are still functioning.

Downside is if something mayor changes with DCS/DCS-BIOS. Then I have to remove all the panels to re-program them but that’s just the way it is I guess.

 

Hope this was of any assistance.

 

Cheers

Hans

If wanted to do something small, instead going to big full/half cockpits, then I would recommend just starting with this:

 

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180

 

It is Plug'n'play to DCS as it is normal joystick board.

 

Offers:

8 analog inputs with 12-bit (4096 steps) resolution each

32 button / 16 rotary encoder inputs

8-way "point-of-view" hat switch input

 

Or if you have some existing things you want to use:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=205&zenid=4ca715a3fa161e64e1e4150f3bdb769c

 

 

 

I would leave all the programming and such just... To those who want to invest more time and want to have something more special.

 

Like get a active USB HUB, then get a 2-3 of those (if you need more than 1) and you can have a very complex "cockpits" built.

 

All that you really need to know is how to build the boxes (or get existing ones), drill a holes, buy the wanted buttons, switches, dials and cables. Solder the cables to the widgets and then just insert them to those boards.

 

So you are spending more time to plan, build, paint etc the actual "cockpit" elements than twiddling the electronics and the code to get them working.

 

The thing that might come against you, is the question of the module joystick mapping. Like does a rotary switch in the cockpit allow to be binded to a what kind input device (button, dial/knob or even an axis).

 

Like example in the L-39 and Hawk the flaps operation is different. In the L-39 you have three buttons that are mechanically so that only one of the three can be pressed down, and pressing something down will pop-up any other button up. So for that you would need to use just a three spring loaded buttons that you press as wanted.

While with a Hawk you have a 3 position switch that you can flip up/down in three positions, so you might get to do same with a three position switch.

 

But now comes the question like how many simultaneous inputs does those boards, or DCS overall accepts? Meaning that if you use a 3 position switch, then at any position it will keep sending a input as there is no "zero" position that doesn't send a input. Or if a such board receives such switch move only as single input that it sends as output, so it isn't constant button pressing.

 

But anyways, that would be my starting point first as the project would be easy to start, cheap for what you can get and it would be fun to build and then use. And that would then later on turn to motivation to build something more complex than you can achieve with those if you would end up to have some limitations with those.

Thanks all for your replies it is nice to see there are people out there ready to help.

 

I can see that I am heading in the right direction with DCS-BIOS/Arduino

 

@Hansolo, I will try to follow your work, it would be interesting to see how your conversion turn out.

 

@Fri13, I came across Leo Bodnar on a few threads, it is definitely something I will try as well, also note that I am actually not (yet) building a cockpit but will just be testing out how things work with few button and switches. Hopefully at the end I can make an informative decision if I go for the real stuff.

 

Am I right in assuming the following:

 

The DCS-BIOS approach would send information back directly to DCS while the Bodnar approach would actually not be speaking directly with DCS but emulate keyboard input to the PC?

The DCS-BIOS approach would send information back directly to DCS while the Bodnar approach would actually not be speaking directly with DCS but emulate keyboard input to the PC?

 

Leo Bodnar and other joystick controllers send DirectX buttons inputs and will have to be mapped in DCS similar to what you do with you main joystick itself. You may also have to mod the lua code to make it to work, e.g. battery switch by default is set as On/Off. So you give an input for On and repeat this input for Off. Doesn't work well with a toggle switch but it's relatively simple to convert so that when input is high switch in 3D pit will go On and when input is not high then switch in 3D pit goes Off.

 

Advantage with Leo Bodnar's over DCS-BIOS IMHO is that you can reuse them for a lot of aircrafts as you just need to remap them. As DCS-BIOS send the correct command then a panel for the A-10C only works for the A-10C. At least to my best knowledge.

 

Cheers

Hans

Edited July 14, 2017 by Hansolo
Corrected wording. Thx Sokol1_br

I'd go with Arcaze:

http://simple-solutions.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=13

40 pins for Input and/or Output and analog connectors as well.

 

Or 'the hard way' by building a matrix and having then a joystick with 256 buttons:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117011

Petardo,

If you're just starting out, I would look at TigerSharkBas' videos

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/TigersharkBAS/videos

 

Check out "How to make an A10 panel" and others. Very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TigersharkBAS/videos

Nice one I will check this out.

 

I'd go with Arcaze:

I came accross it in my research it doesnt' look like many people are using it. For begininer like me i think would best to start with technology that would provide most user support. I might have a look later to it but it would be when I have more experience

BTW, in that video TigerSharkBAS uses GP-WIZ. But the advice is nterchangeable with Bodnar boards or DSD boards from DerekSpeare's website.

Bodnar approach would actually not be speaking directly with DCS but emulate keyboard input to the PC?

 

Bodnar boards don't send 'keyboard input' for computer - send DirectX buttons inputs like any joystick.

 

If you want - for whatever reason - translate that buttons inputs in keyboard input (send key press) you need use a key mapper software, example =Joystick Gremlin.

Bodnar boards don't send 'keyboard input' for computer - send DirectX buttons inputs like any joystick.

 

Thanks.

4 things u need really.

 

time

equipment

knowledge

plans

 

i used to look at all the cool pits being built and i understand what they were doing and it didnt seem to hard but without a plan and time u end up tripping yourself up. i went idle for a year and now im getting back into it and i bought a cheap laser engraver/cutter that will be good for making panels and i got on ebay and just bit the bullet and bought an arduino board that i know nothing about. ive wanted to learn about them for ages but found without a board i wouldnt push myself to learn. cost like $10 for a board.