spit/190/109

gonna pick up one of these quick before sale ends, guess itl be the spit as they fly overhead here.

but have you any recommendations on the other 2 or do you love the spit....I have the stang allready

It all depends. I have all of them, and have to say that the only one I don't enjoy is the Dora. For pure flying fun the Spit is my go to plane. It's also the best dogfighter of them all, but it's also the slowest of them all. For pure BnZ the tiny 109K is where it's at, in that regard it's similar to the Stang. But unlike the stang it can also hold it's own in a dogfight. Just not for long against a skilled Spit player. Just be prepared for a learning curve. All of those planes handle quite differently to the Mustang, especially on take off and landing.

It all depends. I have all of them, and have to say that the only one I don't enjoy is the Dora. For pure flying fun the Spit is my go to plane. It's also the best dogfighter of them all, but it's also the slowest of them all. For pure BnZ the tiny 109K is where it's at, in that regard it's similar to the Stang. But unlike the stang it can also hold it's own in a dogfight. Just not for long against a skilled Spit player. Just be prepared for a learning curve. All of those planes handle quite differently to the Mustang, especially on take off and landing.

generally i agree...except that in dcs, the 109 cant be considered a boom n zoom fighter. it has a good climb rate but the stickforces will do everything to avoid an successfull attack at speeds higher than 400ph at anything except a completely straight flying target. so while in singleplayer against stupid AI target drones it might work, in multiplayer you will more often than not be pretty dissappointed with boom n zoom attacks.

imho the 109 is the worst boom n zoom fighter in dcs as even if its good in keeping an energy advantage once accomplished, its by far the hardest plane do trade that energy for an successfull attack and most of the times its sheer impossible online as usually your oponents are more intelligent than the AI and will break away out of your attack path. you will be :joystick: just to notice that the 109 just doesnt react.

the spitfire on the other hand, has just about the same climb rate, is very very sensitive on the controls...as long as you dont overpull and try to do 12g, it will listen to your inputs instantly. with a steady hand, although slower, the spit is the better boom n zoom plane...and if your boom n zoom attack runs should fail, and your oponent gets about equal energy, just switch to dogfight mode, where the spit excells everything by far.

generally i agree...except that in dcs, the 109 cant be considered a boom n zoom fighter. it has a good climb rate but the stickforces will do everything to avoid an successfull attack at speeds higher than 400ph at anything except a completely straight flying target. so while in singleplayer against stupid AI target drones it might work, in multiplayer you will more often than not be pretty dissappointed with boom n zoom attacks.

 

imho the 109 is the worst boom n zoom fighter in dcs as even if its good in keeping an energy advantage once accomplished, its by far the hardest plane do trade that energy for an successfull attack and most of the times its sheer impossible online as usually your oponents are more intelligent than the AI and will break away out of your attack path. you will be :joystick: just to notice that the 109 just doesnt react.

far.

Isn't that quite true to real life though? IRL if the 109's didn't take the spitfires by surprise they had a terrible time nailing a good spitfire pilot as a 109's dive is very much commited, and it would indeed be difficult to control the AC at high speed in a dive.

I know people don't really want to dogfight on such limited terms, but I'm not sure its inaccurate, though I'm no expert.

The problem with the AI is that he can not be taken by surprise like a human can, so if you can nail the AI, I see no reason why you could not also nail a human player...

Isn't that quite true to real life though? IRL if the 109's didn't take the spitfires by surprise they had a terrible time nailing a good spitfire pilot as a 109's dive is very much commited, and it would indeed be difficult to control the AC at high speed in a dive.

 

 

 

I know people don't really want to dogfight on such limited terms, but I'm not sure its inaccurate, though I'm no expert.

 

 

The problem with the AI is that he can not be taken by surprise like a human can, so if you can nail the AI, I see no reason why you could not also nail a human player...

well the 109 is even a pig at slow and moderate speeds in regards of the stickforces...the pilot cannot even give full rudder at takeoff speeds.

and that although it has a flettner rudder, and the aerodynamic surface is probably half of the size of the p51s. and yet our pilot struggles to give full inputs at these speeds. :doh:

yeah, the 109 has/had high stickforces, but what we have here in dcs is just :lol:

and then on the other hand, the spit is that sensitive, that it can throw that sudden manouvers that just look like something from outer space. sometimes it really does look ridiculous. no way, the spit is that manouverable, as not even modern jets are able to pull that sudden manouvers.

yeah, the general characteristics are there...but dcs put it way over the top in both extremes imho.

about the AI...its easy to nail the AI, as its really stupid, has no brain...it will not exploit its strengths at all...once u understand how the brainless AI is programmed its easy.

(well, of course you need training yourself)

cheers guys, got the spit, shes a different old girl to get in the air, brakes are the hardest lol

well the 109 is even a pig at slow and moderate speeds in regards of the stickforces...the pilot cannot even give full rudder at takeoff speeds.

and that although it has a flettner rudder, and the aerodynamic surface is probably half of the size of the p51s. and yet our pilot struggles to give full inputs at these speeds. :doh:

 

yeah, the 109 has/had high stickforces, but what we have here in dcs is just :lol:

 

and then on the other hand, the spit is that sensitive, that it can throw that sudden manouvers that just look like something from outer space. sometimes it really does look ridiculous. no way, the spit is that manouverable, as not even modern jets are able to pull that sudden manouvers.

 

Harsh words!

Not sure about that man. I know a guy who has flown spitfires was supposed to be very impressed with the DCS spitfire, and I think alot of work has gone into getting it right.

Real spitfire pilots used to say that you only had to 'blow on her' as she was so incredibly sensitive to stick input. So although I've obviously never flown a real spitfire, and can't say for sure, it seems pretty realistic from what I have heard.

Are spits not more manouverable than heavy jets due to being much lighter, in the same way world war 1 planes were more manouverable than WW2?

Harsh words!

 

 

 

Not sure about that man. I know a guy who has flown spitfires was supposed to be very impressed with the DCS spitfire, and I think alot of work has gone into getting them right.

 

 

 

Real spitfire pilots used to say that you only had to 'blow on her' as she was so incredibly sensitive, so although I've obviously never flown a real spitfire, and can't say for sure, it seems pretty realistic from what I have heard.

 

 

 

Are spits not more manouverable than heavy jets due to being much lighter, in the same way world war 1 planes were more manouverable than WW2?

nah not harsh words...i said that the general characteristics are there...i know a real spitfire is very sensitive...but what you can do in dcs sometimes looks like something from outerspace.

never seen a spit in real life or video footage(ww2 or nowadays) doing something even remotely close to what i have seen online. and what i did myself with the dcs spit.

i think they put it to the extremes, both the stickforces of the spit and the 109.

Plus, the manoeuvrability comes with the price.. not seen in Spit nor in Stang. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But that +12 Gs instant turn of Spit is, just like birdstrike said, out of this world.

And yet Nick Grey, a man who's actually got a lot of hours in the real Spitfire Mk. IX says different.

You have how many in the actual thing Birdstrike? What about 109 hours?

Let me guess.....

You bring a crap-ton of baseless speculation and absolutely sweet FA in evidence.

For crissakes, if you got a gripe then at least have the wherewithal to provide some sort of quantifiable data in an effort to prove that your hypothesise have some basis in fact.

Otherwise it's just your opinion, and that my firend round here means... well about the same as the number of hours you have behind the stick of a real 109.

One-oh-whiners not content with having the most powerful of the warbirds that outclasses the Allied machines in most respects, but somehow still not good enough, apparently.

If you can't dominate the fight or at the very least escape at will from any encounter in the DCS 109K-4 currently, then you frankly don't have enough talent.

Geez.

Maybe Nick Grey was paid to say those things, I don't know.. what you cannot pay is real life physics and principles of aerodynamics.. catch my drift mate? ;)

One-oh-whiners not content with having the most powerful of the warbirds that outclasses the Allied machines in most respects, but somehow still not good enough, apparently.

 

 

If you can't dominate the fight or at the very least escape at will from any encounter in the DCS 109K-4 currently, then you frankly don't have enough talent.

 

Geez.

What you're saying is called 'ad hominem'.

Well, amazingme, only person talking out of there posterior is you.

If you honestly think you can make a 12g break turn in the DCS Spit without structural strength penalty then Iwonder what simulator you're flying, cos the Spitty I fly in DCS, if I did that once and got away with it well, I wouldn't even manage a 2-3g pull thereafter I'd have weakened the airframe so much.

All your whining and moaning about how bad the 109 shows me that you have never flown the DCS Spitfire in combat against breathers who know there sh1t in the 109. And it also tells me that your not as good as you'd like to be in the 109.

Try working on your talent set before complaining to Developers about there FMs with evidence free whine-posts. You'll have a more productive experience.

Sorry to bother you mate.. I won't from now on. Please accept my apologies.

One-oh-whiners not content with having the most powerful of the warbirds that outclasses the Allied machines in most respects, but somehow still not good enough, apparently.

 

 

If you can't dominate the fight or at the very least escape at will from any encounter in the DCS 109K-4 currently, then you frankly don't have enough talent.

 

Geez.

The Spitfire FM was good when it was released and I buy all WW2 because I like Warbirds without stupid my Plane must be the Best...

Fly lately a lot of P-51 online.

But Spitfire is only thing I would refund when I can, the FM was good when it was released, but seem's not all can deal with the Weakness of Spitfire.

Because as I posted already in a other Thread, low Wing loading and Low Weight don't make a good Diver.

And currently D9 without MW50 and Spit have same Dive Speed, it so bad there is no Point even in a Dora where you made Energy over Spit.

When you still struggle to kill K4 in this thing, what is currently a mix of IX in Handling and Power of a XIV in a Dive feel really Sorry.

You are free to check this by using the K4 without MW50 how it get overrun by a Spit in a Dive..

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109gtac.html

PS: Sorry for the Error XIV is hopefully Correct now for you..

Mk IX and Mk XIV had the same dive limit speed of 450mph IAS.

What is the IAS dive limit for 109K-4?

109G was, from my source, at 466mph IAS - needs corroborating.

K-4 with improved streamlining I would expect to be faster.

As I understand it the German fighters should have the edge in dive acceleration and pull away I the initial stages of a co-alt, co-E situation. I have never managed to catch a fleeing 109/190 in even a shallow dive online against breather opponents let alone at max dive.

To be clear don't Speak about Dive Limitation, simply the Dive Acceleration where you make Speed or in other Words Energy over your Enemy.

AFDU Tactical Trail is also Speaking about dive acceleration not Dive Limitations.

k4 should go even faster because of higher Weight and Thrust + Wing loading.

There also Test about Fw190A could keep distance to the 18lbs XIV in a Dive, that had around 200hp less Shaft Horsepower do troublesome Engine Exhausts and Engine fans was producing more drag with the Radial Engine then the D9.

When have time I am Happy to make Video about Spit in a Dive right now in DCS.

In DCS right now K4+D9 only getting Distance when you hit your Top speed, this helps in a Dogfight situation nothing.

One-oh-whiners not content with having the most powerful of the warbirds that outclasses the Allied machines in most respects, but somehow still not good enough, apparently.

 

 

If you can't dominate the fight or at the very least escape at will from any encounter in the DCS 109K-4 currently, then you frankly don't have enough talent.

 

Geez.

Someone sounding like a Spitfool to me... lol Whats up with you using stupid names like one o whiners? Are you unable to argue on facts?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170388&highlight=dive

Here is a 109 that could do 911 kph, or 566 mph, or Mach 0.81 in a dive, with crappy F wings. The official limit was what? Id love to see the source for your claim!

There was a high speed dive test performed with BS310 (Mk IX) in March 44. They tested to Mach .83. The results were in a nutshell: the elevators became very heavy, the aircraft developed a longitudinal pitching moment and there was considerable turbulence around the cockpit. No structural damage though.

I guess the prop will be the limiting factor in high speed dives anyway, as above Mach .85 the drag of the prop sykrockets and will likely be shed to pieces before anything else.

Then he should prove it with real flight footage of high speed divings, high Gs turns, rolls etc. We'll pay for the fuel and the insurance. :)

Sent from my Redmi 5 using Tapatalk

And yet Nick Grey, a man who's actually got a lot of hours in the real Spitfire Mk. IX says different.

 

You have how many in the actual thing Birdstrike? What about 109 hours?

 

Let me guess.....

 

You bring a crap-ton of baseless speculation and absolutely sweet FA in evidence.

 

For crissakes, if you got a gripe then at least have the wherewithal to provide some sort of quantifiable data in an effort to prove that your hypothesise have some basis in fact.

 

Otherwise it's just your opinion, and that my firend round here means... well about the same as the number of hours you have behind the stick of a real 109.

would love to see a video of nick grey do those rapid manouvers in a real spitfire and post it here :)

yes i have 0 hours in either the spit or the 109(does nick grey have hours in the 109?)

btw, do you have any hours in any plane?

still what i see in dcs just doesnt add up to the real spits ive seen, and neither does it with any ww2 footage or new footage on any video platform....and this tells me that dcs put those characteristics a little over the top. yes thats my opinion.

you can be of a different opinion, and thats fine with me. and unless you show me a video that convinces me that a real spit is capable of those crazy manouvers like in dcs, our opinion will remain different.

live with it, no reason to attack everytime and scream 'crissakes' :smilewink:

Looks like we've got some "truthers" on the forums. Damn shame if you ask me :(

I tend to agree the spit is obnoxious with some of the maneuvers it does in this Game.

One-oh-whiners not content with having the most powerful of the warbirds that outclasses the Allied machines in most respects, but somehow still not good enough, apparently.

 

 

If you can't dominate the fight or at the very least escape at will from any encounter in the DCS 109K-4 currently, then you frankly don't have enough talent.

 

Geez.

lol, somehow i suspected that u drift into the usual "luftwhiner" argument...:doh:

I tend to agree the spit is obnoxious with some of the maneuvers it does in this Game.

^^must be another luftwhiner as well Fenrir?