asla36 Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 not likely, most people probably won't even notice, but if they're looking these 4thgens can throw off an r-3s without skipping a beat and will just pull away again before you know it. if you want to bait a burning guy to come back for you its probably better to just use the radar. Yup, any radar does seem to attract attention. The shiny RWR signatures are uncontrollably attractive, especially if it's a striker or technologically less advanced fighter! I am wondering about the range at which an R-3R can catch a running enemy... They did post charts about that so going to get studying! Going to have a fun time until it's released, btw thank you RAZBAM for posting those! DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlQaholic Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) Looks great guys! I just wonder how the MiG-19 stacks up against the Mirage 3 and what else would be a good opponent for it. I'd say the English Electric Lightning, F-8 Crusader, or the F4D Skyray are good contenders. Edited May 20, 2017 by AlQaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Looks great guys! I just wonder how the MiG-19 stacks up against the Mirage 3 and what else would be a good opponent for it. I'd say the English Electric Lightning, F-8 Crusader, or the F4D Skyray are good contenders. You're forgetting the closest competitor, the F-100 Super Sabre!:thumbup: DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Chizh Posted May 20, 2017 ED Team Share Posted May 20, 2017 Question: Why do some have a huge muzzle brake but others do not? IIRC, 23mm NR-23 gun has not muzzle brake, but 30mm NR-30 has it. Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlQaholic Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) You're forgetting the closest competitor, the F-100 Super Sabre!:thumbup: Is the F-100's performance really good enough to face off against MiG-19 though? I remember reading somewhere that although they were introduced around the same time the MiG had way better performance. Edited May 20, 2017 by AlQaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev2go Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) Is the F-100's performance really good enough to face off against MiG-19 though? I remember reading somewhere that although they were introduced around the same time the MiG had way better performance. yea its a aircraft from a similar time period, in terms of serve years, but all in all yeai cant disagree. the mig19 has better acceleration/ climb and maneuvering characteristics to the Super sabre. Super sabre could fight, but at a disadvantage. however the F-100D Super sabre would offer greater versatility and a better Fighter/bomber experience, ( more Bomb loads and Agm12 bullpop a2g radio guided missiles) and longer endurance in flight. can also in flight Refuel to extend its station time which is nice. Apart from its guns it can arm up to x4 sidewinders for a2a, and should also have LABS and Special stores for toss bombing and Deploying Tactical nukes. For jack of all trades people, Strike fighter type fans, F100D, For pure A2a and Interception, with some secondary ground attack capability the Mig19 Edited May 20, 2017 by Kev2go Build: Windows 10 64 bit Pro Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, WD 1TB HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 yea its a aircraft from a similar time period, in terms of serve years, but all in all yeai cant disagree. the mig19 has better acceleration/ climb and maneuvering characteristics to the Super sabre. Super sabre could fight, but at a disadvantage. however the F-100D Super sabre would offer greater versatility and a better Fighter/bomber experience, ( more Bomb loads and Agm12 bullpop a2g radio guided missiles) and longer endurance in flight. can also in flight Refuel to extend its station time which is nice. Apart from its guns it can arm up to x4 sidewinders for a2a, and should also have LABS and Special stores for toss bombing and Deploying Tactical nukes. For jack of all trades people, Strike fighter type fans, F100D, For pure A2a and Interception, with some secondary ground attack capability the Mig19 It's pure American Muscle Car, and still astonishes me that no one has picked it up yet. In any event, the MiG-19 helps open up our viable fighter opponent years to a lot more diverse and interesting aircraft. For that alone RAZBAM deserves praise even if I didn't like the 19 on its own merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlQaholic Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 yea its a aircraft from a similar time period, in terms of serve years, but all in all yeai cant disagree. the mig19 has better acceleration/ climb and maneuvering characteristics to the Super sabre. Super sabre could fight, but at a disadvantage. True. Now that I think about it, the F-8 Crusader would probably be the best opponent for the MiG-19 out of the three I mentioned. MiG has better T/W ratio and lower wing loading but the F-8 has top speed and dive. Service ceilings are about the same so no issue there. Clear cut advantages. Yep, they are perfect for each other. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 True. Now that I think about it, the F-8 Crusader would probably be the best opponent for the MiG-19 out of the three I mentioned. MiG has better T/W ratio and lower wing loading but the F-8 has top speed and dive. Service ceilings are about the same so no issue there. Clear cut advantages. Yep, they are perfect for each other. :thumbup: If we are looking at purely A-A, then of course! There was some talk about RAZBAM making an A-7, do they have clear plans to do do it in the future? Because if so it would not only provide an A-A counterpart to the MiG-19p, but be an awesome retro strike and SEAD/DEAD aircraft! Of course the F-8 would be the better opponent if we looked at the time-frame. But capabilities wise the A-7 would be roughly the same in A-A, with some added strike options. Thanks for the answer in advance! DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probad Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 a-7 is absolutely nothing like the f-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 a-7 is absolutely nothing like the f-8. Ok sorry, just realized it doesn't have an AB... So the F-8 would indeed be the much, much better option. Again, sorry for wasting this forums space.:Flush: Searched around and found out that the F-105 has a higher T/W ratio and top speed than the F-8. So the F-105 should be able to out-run the MiG-19p, but have the disadvantage in acceleration. Interesting since it's a striker. I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but lets talk more about the Farmer. After all this is the farmer's thread... How was the farmer's negative G performance? How long could the negative G tank last in full military power, or in AB. Also, how long did the radar coolant last while in standby and operational mode? As far as I know the Farmer had 2 radar antennas, a search and a track one. How does this affect the coolant time? Do they have separate tanks, so that one could run out and the other still work, or the same one for both? DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlQaholic Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I have a good one. What are the gun sights on the MiG-19 like? Simple? Advanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungaromaus Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I have a good one. What are the gun sights on the MiG-19 like? Simple? Advanced? Well, the dashboard looks like this : For the gunsight, i saw that in Strike Fighters, and i would say that thats a simple one. Its like on the 21F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I have a good one. What are the gun sights on the MiG-19 like? Simple? Advanced? It's like on the MiG-15bis, but there is a lead marker. So if you close enough that the radar locks the target, it will show you where to lead. I think that OverStratos posted an image of this on the MiG-19 thread. Will search for it! Ok, found it! Here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3090021&postcount=123 So a neat system! Sad they didn't carry the all-weather guns capability over to the MiG-21bis though. I guess they believed in missiles to do the job at night or in clouds. DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat155 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 MiG-19 got new ASP-5N gunsight, much better like ASP-3 from MiG-15/17, and for his time was very advanced ( circa 1953 ). As standard ASP-5 was connected with radio rangefinders SRD-1M, SRD-5M (A-A) or SRD-5MK (A-G), SRD-3. Gunsight was driven by gyro unit and analog ballistic computer. Later those gunsights were mounted on early MiGs-21 ( F, F-13, U, US ) and Su-7 ( B,BM, early BMK, early BKL and UM ). ASP-5 was basis to create ASP-PF-21/ASP-PFB-7. Few photos: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 MiG-19 got new ASP-5N gunsight, much better like ASP-3 from MiG-15/17, and for his time was very advanced ( circa 1953 ). As standard ASP-5 was connected with radio rangefinders SRD-1M, SRD-5M (A-A) or SRD-5MK (A-G), SRD-3. Gunsight was driven by gyro unit and analog ballistic computer. Later those gunsights were mounted on early MiGs-21 ( F, F-13, U, US ) and Su-7 ( B,BM, early BMK, early BKL and UM ). ASP-5 was basis to create ASP-PF-21/ASP-PFB-7. Few photos: I am wondering, how are the A-G modes? And if there will be any gun-sight indication* or small lights next to it for IR missile lock like on the MiG-21bis. And BTW, nice pictures! * Radar on, fixed beam, IR lock= the "pipper" moves to bore-sight. DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungaromaus Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 As i said, its like the 21F's gunsight. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat155 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yep, MiG-21F/F-13 had the same gunsight, just in different subvariant. Main difference is possibilty of use something what was called SIW-52. SIW was kind of night vision binocular, and was mounted on glass reflector on right side. A/G modes?. Generally the same like in MiG-21, only difference is lack of second fixed reticle and less automation ( ASP-5 is considered as half automatic, ASP-21 as automatic gunsight ). Nice photos?. What about those: Interesting video from tear down: Cheers.:thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 IIRC, 23mm NR-23 gun has not muzzle brake, but 30mm NR-30 has it. MiG-19P NR-30 cannons without muzzle brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yep, MiG-21F/F-13 had the same gunsight, just in different subvariant. Main difference is possibilty of use something what was called SIW-52. SIW was kind of night vision binocular, and was mounted on glass reflector on right side. A/G modes?. Generally the same like in MiG-21, only difference is lack of second fixed reticle and less automation ( ASP-5 is considered as half automatic, ASP-21 as automatic gunsight ). Nice photos?. What about those: Interesting video from tear down: Cheers.:thumbup: Indeed, those are nice! The mechanical computing technology has always interested and confused me. Also, what does half-automated mean? Do you still have to keep manually adjusting some settings ( target width, range, and weapon type/velocity) to keep it accurate, or would you just set them and the automation would do the rest? This will surely be an awesome bird to learn! DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat155 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yes, always you have to feed target size, angles (different for canons, FFAR's and bombs ), distance is feeding automaticaly from rangefinder/radar. General accuracy is worse compare to ASP-PFD-21 because ballistic computer use less data to correct reticle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yes, always you have to feed target size, angles (different for canons, FFAR's and bombs ), distance is feeding automaticaly from rangefinder/radar. General accuracy is worse compare to ASP-PFD-21 because ballistic computer use less data to correct reticle. So, no need for ongoing corrections? If you plan to use a certain kind of weapon against a certain kind of aircraft that is. So you would have to put in the target size of what you are currently shooting at, or change to bombs/rockets and back if you wanted to engage a ground target. Correct? Will the angle off also determine the ranging information it gets? For example if you were to dive on an opponent, would you get incorrect lead information? Or does the radar use the time it takes for radio waves to bounce back instead of target size like modern radars, in which case i would not see why you (in an ideal world) would need to input target size. In that situation, I guess it's for backup. After all, the radar doesn't IIRC work that well below 2km. Also does the search radar keep working if the track radar locks a thing? DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 You have to dial distance, intercept angle and size (base) for ground targets. The sight use a basic ballistic method calcullation (speed and height). It does not take yaw, slide or angle of attack into the equation. (like its next iteration mounted on MiG-21F-13 and Su-7). The best altitude for rangefinder use against ground targets is 2500-2000 mts and range accurancy is around +/- 100m. Pilots preferred to use caged sight and manual methods then, because as every "first", the system was not too acurrate. The MiG-19P uses a second sight for ground attack. Engagement of air targets is fully automatic, you can almost say that the radar is a "track-while-scan" type, as it can lock a target while still showing others. It can detect bombers around 11km and fighters around 9km. Once the target enters the 4 km zone and within a 7º cone, it will be locked automatically. Around 1.2-1km the aim solution will be presented. Best firing distance is between 800-300mts. About F-100 vs MiG-19, the MiG-19P had less performance than the S variant, but still is better in acceleration and climb than the Super Sabre, losing only in top speed and range. I can´t talk right now about ITR or STR as I don´t remember. I will check later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmorrow Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Kewl! I didn't know this was in development. This is very exciting news. I can't wait to try this one out in DCS. [sIGPIC]http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/mjmorrow76/SPAD%20of%20a%20new%20generation_zpshcbftpce.png[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 You have to dial distance, intercept angle and size (base) for ground targets. The sight use a basic ballistic method calcullation (speed and height). It does not take yaw, slide or angle of attack into the equation. (like its next iteration mounted on MiG-21F-13 and Su-7). The best altitude for rangefinder use against ground targets is 2500-2000 mts and range accurancy is around +/- 100m. Pilots preferred to use caged sight and manual methods then, because as every "first", the system was not too acurrate. The MiG-19P uses a second sight for ground attack. Engagement of air targets is fully automatic, you can almost say that the radar is a "track-while-scan" type, as it can lock a target while still showing others. It can detect bombers around 11km and fighters around 9km. Once the target enters the 4 km zone and within a 7º cone, it will be locked automatically. Around 1.2-1km the aim solution will be presented. Best firing distance is between 800-300mts. About F-100 vs MiG-19, the MiG-19P had less performance than the S variant, but still is better in acceleration and climb than the Super Sabre, losing only in top speed and range. I can´t talk right now about ITR or STR as I don´t remember. I will check later. Thanks for clearing that up! DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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