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Rocket tactics on bunkers


Holton181

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So, I have very seldom used rockets at all due to lousy results and me being to inpatient for practice. But I figured I wanted to give them yet another try so I fired up my old, modified firing range mission (start in air close to the range, S-13 only, unlimited amo) to take out some bunkers.

I don't know how many rounds it took (2 rockets each), but I finally managed to destroy the command bunker for the first time ever (been flying since BS1). Headed for the three other ones and had equall difficulties with the two first ones. The third ended after a long hover close to the bunker and firing in burst of 4 rockets, emptying several load-outs, seeing the rockets getting direct hits. Don't know for how long I did this until it finally realized it was time to die.

I have tried to hover at 100-300m, running in at 200km/h, straight and level, diving, firing at 3,2,1km distance... Whatever I try, the aiming reticle circles perfectly aligned, that weapon dial at the back panel at #2 (S-13), I have major difficulties to even get close! And most often when I can see I get a direct hit, a lot of fire, the smoke disperse and the bunker is still standing strong!

I remember one of the training missions, or perhaps a training video within the game, back in the BS1 days, where the instructor demonstrate rocket deployment against a truck. From a hover, very smoothly he perfectly aligned the circles, fire two rockets and get a perfect hit on the truck! (and it was IIRC the last thing he did after a rather lengthy weapon systems demonstration, not a short thing where he could have done several tries before succeeding) Why not me?

Yes, I know (I think?) you are supposed to first lock-n-laze the target and then press the lock button again for the "whatever it's called" to adjust the reticle and vertically adjust the angle of the rocket pods (at least for the S-8?). If it's not correct it doesn't hurt anyway.

I'm still on 1.5.7 so it's not due to bugs introduced in 2.5 (or 1.5.8 for that matter). I have searched in the forums and found some guides about rocket deployment, but all of them are about hitting trucks or infantry, firing medium or long bursts to kill as many units possible. I get the impression bunkers should be treated somewhat different.

Some good, detailed instructions on how to treat bunkers, maybe videos, from some rocket deployment experts would be very welcome.

Until then, I will try to learn bombing.

Helicopters and Viggen

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the bunker is specifically designed to counter the role of an s-8 rocket.

 

the s-8 is an unguided area effect weapon used on spread out soft targets in the open.

(trucks and infantry, like in the training)

 

bunkers are designed to protect soft targets from area effect weapons. by removing them from the open and making them very hard.

 

to use an analogy, in rock paper scissors, the rock (bunker) will always beat your scissors (s-8 ).

so use paper.

 

the su-25 has several rockets designed for bunkers, several guided weapons designed for bunkers. and good old large dumb bombs which will do in a pinch.

 

paper beats rock every time. with no effort.

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I read long, long, long ago that DCS changed the S-13 model from the bunker penetrating model to a variant which was less capable in that regard. S-13OF? Maybe my brain is bad but it might explain the lack of effect.
Would be a real pity. Then we basically only have the Vikhr for the Ka-50, and it's not good at bunkers either.

It's not that you need to hit the bunkers from a specific angle, like on the roof?

Either way, I still need to get the rockets to hit were I'm aiming.

Helicopters and Viggen

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The ME does say they're S-13OF which is an APAM/FRAG weapon.

 

Yeah, I never bothered to learn about different versions of a certain weapon, the Vikhr is only one in game, S-13 only one, S-8 several, but since I mainly wanted to use rockets to neutralize bunkers I thought S-13 would do (didn't need to learn about S-8) because I read somewhere a looong time ago they were made specifically for that purpose, never noticed the version we got didn't.

Well, discovered there were wind at play in the mission. Disable it and got slightly better accuracy.

Thanks guys.

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

Win7 Pro 64bit

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P9X79 Pro

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GTX 670 2GB

VG278H + a Dell

PFT Lynx

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So, I have very seldom used rockets at all due to lousy results and me being to inpatient for practice. But I figured I wanted to give them yet another try so I fired up my old, modified firing range mission (start in air close to the range, S-13 only, unlimited amo) to take out some bunkers.

I don't know how many rounds it took (2 rockets each), but I finally managed to destroy the command bunker for the first time ever (been flying since BS1). Headed for the three other ones and had equall difficulties with the two first ones. The third ended after a long hover close to the bunker and firing in burst of 4 rockets, emptying several load-outs, seeing the rockets getting direct hits. Don't know for how long I did this until it finally realized it was time to die.

I have tried to hover at 100-300m, running in at 200km/h, straight and level, diving, firing at 3,2,1km distance... Whatever I try, the aiming reticle circles perfectly aligned, that weapon dial at the back panel at #2 (S-13), I have major difficulties to even get close! And most often when I can see I get a direct hit, a lot of fire, the smoke disperse and the bunker is still standing strong!

I remember one of the training missions, or perhaps a training video within the game, back in the BS1 days, where the instructor demonstrate rocket deployment against a truck. From a hover, very smoothly he perfectly aligned the circles, fire two rockets and get a perfect hit on the truck! (and it was IIRC the last thing he did after a rather lengthy weapon systems demonstration, not a short thing where he could have done several tries before succeeding) Why not me?

Yes, I know (I think?) you are supposed to first lock-n-laze the target and then press the lock button again for the "whatever it's called" to adjust the reticle and vertically adjust the angle of the rocket pods (at least for the S-8?). If it's not correct it doesn't hurt anyway.

I'm still on 1.5.7 so it's not due to bugs introduced in 2.5 (or 1.5.8 for that matter). I have searched in the forums and found some guides about rocket deployment, but all of them are about hitting trucks or infantry, firing medium or long bursts to kill as many units possible. I get the impression bunkers should be treated somewhat different.

Some good, detailed instructions on how to treat bunkers, maybe videos, from some rocket deployment experts would be very welcome.

Until then, I will try to learn bombing.

 

I think I made some videos a long time ago about using the rockets. S8KOM WILL destroy a bunker. I use the "standby reticle mode" no lasing required, and I set my burst to "short"(only 1 rocket from each pod will fire). This way is more accurate because if more than two are fired at a time your shark will pitch up. Not much of a pitch up, but if your shooting rockets from 4km, very noticeable spread on the rockets. I spent hours and hours improving my skills with the rockets, because they really are very useful once you get the hang of them. Also if you hit the NumPad "Enter" key it zooms in just enough to get a good sight picture with the reticle.

 

 

Reaper6

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Also, just to add a little more helpful information for training to use the unguided rockets...

 

 

Unguided rockets are NOT precision weapons(obviously). The are mainly used as area suppression weapons.

 

 

You can NOT equip the Ka50 with the S-13T Rockets which are the ones talked about previously (Ideal for hardened aircraft bunkers, runways. 6m soil penetration, 1m concrete.). You are only able to equip the Ka50 with the S-13OF which are Blast fragmentation variant for lightly armoured targets. More efficient than S-8, BUT extremely HEAVY!

 

 

I spent literally HUNDREDs of hours practicing rocket engagements, both ground and air targets. A suggestion I have for you is to use the S-8TsM rockets for training(Smoke rockets). This allows you to see precisely where your rockets are landing so you can adjust. Which is why I recommend using the "Standby Reticle Mode", when engaging with unguided rockets.

 

 

Your unguided rocket pods(B-8V208 Launcher/B-13L5 Launcher) DO NOT move, they are fixed unlike the Vikhrs which can make minor adjustments down.

 

 

Ballistic Dial "1" for the smoke rockets, if you want to spend some time training with them.

 

 

There are to different types of S8 rockets for engaging targets in combat.

S8KOM-Modern tanks, lightly armored/soft skinned combat materiel(also good for bunkers).

S8OFP-Personnel, soft and lightly armored.(I usually carry these, for use against pesky manpads!

 

 

Also the last thing... I always only fire off unguided rockets as I said before using "short" burst. This is also helpful now(with the implementation of rocket smoke) against Jets. I always fire 2 at them to see if they are paying attention, I don't want to waste 2 Vikhrs, if they are just going to turn hard left/right to avoid my Vikhrs. If they don't turn immediately I send 2 Vikhrs, and have been fairly successful using this new tactic.

 

**UPDATE** Tested today; S13OF Rockets on Bunker killed with 2 hits, M1 Tank killed with 2 hits. S8KOM Rockets, killed bunker with 2 hits, killed M1 tank 3 hits. Both scenarios @1km range(most precise range, when lased thru the Shkval and using the aiming mark in the HUD).

Reaper6


Edited by Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

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[...]

You can NOT equip the Ka50 with the S-13T Rockets which are the ones talked about previously (Ideal for hardened aircraft bunkers, runways. 6m soil penetration, 1m concrete.).

[...]

**UPDATE** Tested today; S13T Rockets on Bunker killed with 2 hits, M1 Tank killed with 2 hits.

No contradiction here ?


Edited by Frank Murphy
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S8KOM Rockets, killed bunker with 2 hits, [/b]

Reaper6

 

what is the penetrator on a 8KOM? heat and an ounce of copper?

so you destroyed the entire contents of a bunker with 2 ounces of copper penetrating.

 

man i love the damage model in DCS :)

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No contradiction here ?

 

How so? Is the target an aircraft bunker(which is more likely to have 6m of soil or 1m of concrete. Or the Personnel bunker(which doesn't really look to me to have even a meter of soil or concrete).

 

 

Reaper6

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I wish I could see a youtube video of all this testing :)

 

I use to have a program to record my screen. But it was a trial period. If you have any suggestions I would be happy to post videos.

 

 

Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

NZXT Phantom Full Tower, Intel Core i7 4960X Processor(6x 3.60GHz/15MB L3Cache) 20% Overclocking, 64GB DDR3-2133 Memory, NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan Black-6GB SLI Mode(Dual Cards), Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 Motherboard, ViewSonic PJD5132 SVGA Multi-Region 3D Ready Portable DLP Projector, Track IR 5, Thrustmaster Warthog, Cougar MFDs.

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what is the penetrator on a 8KOM? heat and an ounce of copper?

so you destroyed the entire contents of a bunker with 2 ounces of copper penetrating.

 

man i love the damage model in DCS :)

 

The S-8KOM is a HEAT rocket. No copper is involved, just an explosive shaped charge and an air cavity. Maybe I'm wrong though?

 

 

Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

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How so? Is the target an aircraft bunker(which is more likely to have 6m of soil or 1m of concrete. Or the Personnel bunker(which doesn't really look to me to have even a meter of soil or concrete).

 

 

Reaper6

You did not get the point It is just you said the Ka-50 cannot be equipped with S-13T then you say you performed some tests using S-13T, that's all
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You did not get the point It is just you said the Ka-50 cannot be equipped with S-13T then you say you performed some tests using S-13T, that's all

 

So I did, lol. Sorry, it's a still a little early here :) Thank you for the correction.

 

 

Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

NZXT Phantom Full Tower, Intel Core i7 4960X Processor(6x 3.60GHz/15MB L3Cache) 20% Overclocking, 64GB DDR3-2133 Memory, NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan Black-6GB SLI Mode(Dual Cards), Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 Motherboard, ViewSonic PJD5132 SVGA Multi-Region 3D Ready Portable DLP Projector, Track IR 5, Thrustmaster Warthog, Cougar MFDs.

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...

...

A lot of good stuff right there, Reaper. Thanks! I envy you for scoring bunkers with only two rockets...

I did some practice yesterday again and ended up like that mentioned in my first post, hovering close to ground at maybe 500m from the bunker emptying several loadouts of S-13 at it (rather frustrated at that point...). When I finally succeeded to destroy it, I got the feeling it's best to hit from above? Hitting from the side didn't give any results it seemed.

 

I can't seem to be able to lock on to the command bunkers, the mission is taking place during the evening though, might change that to midday and try.

 

I have played with bombs too, and watched some of your bombing videos. Will try to find your rocket ones.

Helicopters and Viggen

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I think I made some videos a long time ago about using the rockets.

Unfortunately not on your YouTube channel. The bombings are there though

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

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P9X79 Pro

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I did some quick videos this morning of some rocket runs on a tank and some bunkers. The tank and bunker one I did with "medium" burst, because the tank was firing at me and knocked out my Shkval(of course, it's always the first thing to go!). The second one I did with two bunkers, one "static" and one "live"(just to make sure both are killable with rockets), with "short" burst.

 

 

 

Usually it's best to attack the bunkers from behind. Not actually sure if it makes a difference when it comes to killing them. Just so they don't fire on you.

 

 

Again unguided rockets are not the most accurate things. And to be honest I rarely use them, basically just to scare off jets online or manpads. I aim at the base of the target, the Shark tends to jump a little when firing. If you send 3 volleys using "short" burst, your pretty sure to kill the target.

 

 

I've just started using the ShadowPlay, so I can make some other rocket videos later on. Pretty bad video quality, but I don't know how to fix that on YouTube?

 

 

Reaper6


Edited by Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

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Didn't you use to be able to somehow show the video in posts?

 

 

Reaper6

"De oppresso liber"

 

NZXT Phantom Full Tower, Intel Core i7 4960X Processor(6x 3.60GHz/15MB L3Cache) 20% Overclocking, 64GB DDR3-2133 Memory, NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan Black-6GB SLI Mode(Dual Cards), Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 Motherboard, ViewSonic PJD5132 SVGA Multi-Region 3D Ready Portable DLP Projector, Track IR 5, Thrustmaster Warthog, Cougar MFDs.

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I did some quick videos this morning...

I'm speechless...

Thanks! Definitely a proof of concept. I assume you could/can do that on 1.5 as well.

The the strange thing is still why I can't destroy a bunker from 500m and 20+ direct hits with S-13...

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

Win7 Pro 64bit

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P9X79 Pro

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GTX 670 2GB

VG278H + a Dell

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