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DCS F/A-18 flight model : realistic?


Talon Karde

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I saw there were some real Hornet drivers in the place. :thumbup: I wonder one thing : is the FM we have realistic? I mean, Hornet has a good reputation, but I find the one we have on DCS very lazy on the inputs. When I go from the Hornet to the M2K, it's like climbing in an angry jet full of cocaine :lol: Even the F-14B seems to be more reactive...

 

I really like the Hornet cockpit, her systems and flexibility. But I have real toubles with engines inertia and the feeling to always be full of armament even when bombs are gone... :cry:

 

I use 15 joystick curve as most people on my T16000M but it doesn't satisfy me...

 

Does the real F/A-18 behave like that? :helpsmilie:

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Talon Karde

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The responsiveness of the airplane to control inputs is going to vary based on everybody's home controller setup. Nobody can say if it's exactly right because we're not flying the simulator from inside a real Hornet cockpit.

 

As for comparisons with the Mirage, the Hornet is WAY draggier, while the Mirage is a delta wing with elevons which gives it crazy pitch authority and roll speed. They're both fly-by-wire but they have vastly different aerodynamics and the flight systems are designed very differently.

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I really struggle to find what curve I must set. I use 15. Most players tend to have 15-25. But I'm afraid to increase again as it may result in a more lazy behaviour.

Talon Karde

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I really struggle to find what curve I must set. I use 15. Most players tend to have 15-25. But I'm afraid to increase again as it may result in a more lazy behaviour.

 

15-25? Most players? I don't think that is remotely close to the truth, I am running 0 curves, as well as all of my squadron. 15 is a large curve setting to begin with, 25 is pretty ridiculous IMHO

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15-25? Most players? I don't think that is remotely close to the truth, I am running 0 curves, as well as all of my squadron. 15 is a large curve setting to begin with, 25 is pretty ridiculous IMHO

 

Well it is what I saw in this forum, even on some Discord servers and my teamates use at least 20. But I will give 0 a try :thumbup:

Talon Karde

Du Talon de qualité, élevé au grain et en plein air, entièrement livré en kit.

Mauvais pilote:joystick: sur DCS: F-14B, DCS: F/A-18C et DCS: Mirage 2000C :wub:

 

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The responsiveness of the airplane to control inputs is going to vary based on everybody's home controller setup. Nobody can say if it's exactly right because we're not flying the simulator from inside a real Hornet cockpit.

 

As for comparisons with the Mirage, the Hornet is WAY draggier, while the Mirage is a delta wing with elevons which gives it crazy pitch authority and roll speed. They're both fly-by-wire but they have vastly different aerodynamics and the flight systems are designed very differently.

 

 

Well would say that depends , the Mirage is likely draggier with AOA which becomes quickly apparent in any sustained turn.The delta gives extremely good initial(read instantaneous )turn performance, but as soon as you put and keep any significant AOA on the jet the delta wing becomes one huge airbrake .The sustained turn capability of the Mirage is not that great in my opinion.

 

Last time I checked the hornet was still be able to outrate (sustained) everything in DCS except the Tomcat if flown correctly.

 

To the OP, if the Hornet feels sluggish , besides controller curves/sensitivity .I would check your flying technique.Are you flying at optimum speed for what you to achieve?

Are you pulling too hard?

If you‘re already low on energy any jet will feel sluggish .

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

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I really struggle to find what curve I must set. I use 15. Most players tend to have 15-25.

 

The curves depend greatly on what Hotas you have .. you can't expect the curve that feels right on a Saitek, to work the same on a Warthog. Also it is a matter of personal preference, so you must experiment a bit with your own Hotas, rather than take the shortcut of copying someone else's curve values.

 

For what is worth, I use 0 curve on the stick, but 20 on my rudders.

 

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I use zero curve for the roll axis and 10 for pitch. The problem with running much of a curve is that a) your inputs will no longer be linear and b) it makes the aircraft feel "sluggish" in response - particularly in the roll axis.

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I use zero curve for the roll axis and 10 for pitch. The problem with running much of a curve is that a) your inputs will no longer be linear and b) it makes the aircraft feel "sluggish" in response - particularly in the roll axis.

 

I think that's the point, more than a bad use of the plane. Because I have this feeling no matter the speed. Well, I'll se if it is really harder ton fly in formation. Users using 15+ curve often say it is to fly in formation with more precision. Personnaly, having a sluggish response doesn't help me.

 

I will try 0 and will tell you.

 

Thx a lot.

Talon Karde

Du Talon de qualité, élevé au grain et en plein air, entièrement livré en kit.

Mauvais pilote:joystick: sur DCS: F-14B, DCS: F/A-18C et DCS: Mirage 2000C :wub:

 

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Its landing behaviour is odd for now....for land bases

 

 

 

 

 

Its very easy to aerobrake on the Hornet with HALF flaps and keep the nose up. But with full flaps, its almost impossible. But, I see in airshows that they do aerobrake the landing with full flaps, especially those Finnish and Canadian pilots doing it in some airshows.

 

 

 

 

Skip to 4:35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by jojyrocks
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My main problem to land on a carrier is engine inertia and the tendancy to put noose full up when gears going down. It seems strange, but I land F-14 far more easily :D

Talon Karde

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Mauvais pilote:joystick: sur DCS: F-14B, DCS: F/A-18C et DCS: Mirage 2000C :wub:

 

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My main problem to land on a carrier is engine inertia and the tendancy to put noose full up when gears going down. It seems strange, but I land F-14 far more easily :D

Do you mean that the entire pattern is easier for you in the F-14 or that you catch wires more consistently? For the first, the F-14 has the DLC which helps with fine control, but for the second, the hook skipping off the deck is not simulated, so you'll catch the wire more easily than you should.

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I'm gonna add this and let you guys sort out your feelings.

 

I have a friend whose Brother in Law flew the Hornet. They stopped by his house before moving to another state last week for a visit. My friend took him up and sat him down at his computer to show him the hornet. After a few minutes he said "Well let me try"

 

His only complaint about the Launch sequence...no Weight Board...Everything else looked "Really Cool" (His Words)

 

His First approach to the Roosevelt was a bolter. He adjusted his seat.

 

His second Approach He trapped and received a grade of "OK" 3 Wire.

 

Cold. Hes never flown a n entertainment flight sim in his life.

 

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I tried 0 curve, it work way better for me. Linear is juste the way I sould have fly her from the start !

 

 

Do you mean that the entire pattern is easier for you in the F-14 or that you catch wires more consistently? For the first, the F-14 has the DLC which helps with fine control, but for the second, the hook skipping off the deck is not simulated, so you'll catch the wire more easily than you should.

 

 

Not the entire pattern. I must admit that old scool avionic make the pattern harder. But in final approach, the power and reactivity of the Tomcat engines + DLC + the fact the plane is a giant wing make way easir to catch wires. Maybee it will be less easier with infamous TF30 engines when F-14A will be in the place...:P

Talon Karde

Du Talon de qualité, élevé au grain et en plein air, entièrement livré en kit.

Mauvais pilote:joystick: sur DCS: F-14B, DCS: F/A-18C et DCS: Mirage 2000C :wub:

 

-= In Ctrl + E + E + E we trust =-

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Envie de tester Shadow de Blade? Tiens, un code de parrainage : ARNJB3VB

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Not the entire pattern. I must admit that old scool avionic make the pattern harder. But in final approach, the power and reactivity of the Tomcat engines + DLC + the fact the plane is a giant wing make way easir to catch wires. Maybee it will be less easier with infamous TF30 engines when F-14A will be in the place...:P

I don't fly the F-14 much, but I admit that it has a quicker throttle response and it doesn't balloon up (which the Hornet shouldn't do either, I'm hoping the FM changes address that). It's also kinda less stable and worse at keeping AOA, but that's probably a combination of the lack of FCS and the fact that I'm not very good at flying it. But again, I wouldn't judge it based on how easy or not it catches the wires, since hook skipping is not simulated on the F-14, but is simulated on the F-18.

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Check out this thread for more info on what is going on . . .

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=281336

 

 

TGW linked to a very detailed topic.

i suggest you go on there, anyway to cut it short : F18 in DCS is underperforming .

real one seems better (also real pilots like C.W. Lemoine "Mover" and "Gonky" of "the ready room" channel say that many times in their videos).

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TGW linked to a very detailed topic.

i suggest you go on there, anyway to cut it short : F18 in DCS is underperforming .

real one seems better (also real pilots like C.W. Lemoine "Mover" and "Gonky" of "the ready room" channel say that many times in their videos).

 

 

ED did say the FM did need some refining and as it is now some of the characteristics are not accurate.

 

 

For eg:

 

 

 

There are also NATOPS recommending NOT to aerobrake the Legacy Hornet as in, NOT recommended. But we see, LAND based air forces for those nations that use them for their Air force and not the Navy. We see them aerobraking, I do believe I've posted a vid here in this thread showing Finnish pilots Legacy Hornets doing just that.

 

 

 

In DCS its impossible to aerobrake with Full flaps on the legacy hornet. Also, stopping the hornet is also very tough, its got very low brake power and sometimes, even with SB deployed plus stick full aft, the plane does not seem to be slowing much.

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Somewhat off the actual topic, I’ve found that while the flight characteristics of various planes differ when they are clean, those flight characteristics differ greatly between planes that are both loaded. For example, clean, the F-18 will fly around....no surprise the blue angles use it: very agile and responsive. The F-14 clean is a bit “clumsier” but has power to spare and can accelerate snd climb just as well despite being far heavier. Put on 2 bags, 2 mk84s, 2 amraams and a pod On the hornet and it’s a dog. But throw 2 bags, 4 AGM-54s, 2 sparrows and 2 aim-9s....and it hardly pays attention. Meaning the difference in performance between an empty and loaded f-14 is far smaller than an empty vs loaded hornet.

 

My point is that some aircraft have their flight characteristics far more affected than others

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I don't think it's that surprising given :

 

 

 

a) relative mass of the ordnance you put on

 

 

b) the tomcat has its stations better integrated into the structure (less interference drag)

 

 

c) the stations are closer to the CoG in the tomcat (less increase in moment of inertia)

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The flight model of the F-18 is fantastic, it is capable of taking off and flying with the wings folded.

 

Just like the real thing.

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Flight Characteristics

 

The DCS Hornet does not fly like the actual aircraft. It is not stable in flight. It's as if the fly-by-wire system does not work as intended to retain stability while retaining maneuverability in an aerodynamically unstable aircraft and the aircraft has no mass or inertia. Changing the joystick curve does not affect stability. Try the VRS F/A-18E for something that's lots closer to reality.

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How many people in these threads can actually say with any authority what's right or wrong? The only post in the thread that has even second hand feedback from an actual hornet pilot is positive, every thing else might just be typical internet bs.

 

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