AV-8B+

I have been out of the loop for a couple years but I keep going back to the Harrier. A couple years back I saw they were going to release an AV-8B+ (with radar nose) when the Hornet was developed. Reason being is they could use information used to develop the APG-65 for the Hornet.

Adding AV-8B+ would bring Spain and Italy into the mix, as it is the version of the Harrier they use. AMRAAM-Harriers would offer better fleet defense and be more capable in MP.

Do there continue to be plans to introduce the AV-8B+?

They never said they were ''going to'' persay. They have said they might do one, but it would be a separate module. Right now they're working on other stuff, so it is years away at best.

Imo, we've got enough multi-role BluFor fighters, we don't really need another, but whatevs

 

Imo, we've got enough multi-role BluFor fighters, we don't really need another, but whatevs

But we need to spamram all the things. All planes need spamraam.

Vote yes

They never said they were ''going to'' persay. They have said they might do one, but it would be a separate module.

Actually they said that they are waiting the Hornet to get the A/G radar so they could make the AV-8B+ variant, but they weren't sure about making it separate module or combined and for what price. The problem is that how they said about it caused a small storm in a glass by trying to back-step away from the AV-8B+ thing, as many purchased the Harrier because they would see later the radar variant (in some thread there screenshots from their specific words they used to show that they were like "You are going to get it".

The AV-8B+ has same flight manual as AV-8B N/A, there are few notions here and there that are for specifically the radar variant, mainly the screens but otherwise they are same. So you take away the ARBS and you add the radar screen pages there.

Right now they're working on other stuff, so it is years away at best.

They better be working to complete the AV-8B N/A, M2000 and MiG-19P, as they promised that no other module gets released (!= be developed) like MiG-23MLA before those three are completed (initial estimation for schedule was in 2020).

Imo, we've got enough multi-role BluFor fighters, we don't really need another, but whatevs

Well, we already have a AV-8B N/A that just is missing the weapons to be launched with APG-65 radar to be classified as Multi-Role. So AMRAAM, Sparrow, Harpoon and Sea Eagle.

Basically if ED could give a nice API and sample codes how to add the radar we would get AV-8B+ quickly.

And that is the problem here. ED has done the heavy lifting by implementing the A-G radar functionality. And the + variant really just changes that one "small" thing (compared to overall flight modeling, system simulations etc etc), it would be just questionable to ask a full new module price for it!

While IMHO every studio should be able to exactly get a nice good income from the new variants that are fairly easily made. I would see that AV-8B N/A is the required base module (for $ 69,99) and then you can buy a AV-8B+ as addition for fair price (lets now say for argument sake a $ 19,99). Why not "buy one, get a discount to others"? Because when you make one huge work for something that is considered as "base variant" that is used to model all else (Mi-24V should have come first as base, then Mi-24P as upgrade variant, later the Mi-24VP, as the V and P has same pilot cockpit and all rest, but gunner cockpit is redesigned for the 30 mm cannon use by removing the targeting system) you should get paid for it. And if someone wants something little different (V vs P) then it should be paid as small upgrade.

And this way the studio gets improved income and reasons to maintain all variants, because someone wanting "upgraded variant" wouldn't just be able buy it for "69,99" but would need to pay always "69,99 + 19,99" to get it. Because the heavy work was done for the base variant.

Sure the studio is reusing the code from the first module, but it should be their "bread and butter" and this way there are more reasons for all studios to consider to make a new different variants as it is always "$$ + $" situation instead just "$$". And we do not run to situation that we would suddenly be in "$$" + "$$" + "$$".

Like personally I would be very fine to $ 49,99 for L-39C, and then pay extra $ 9,99 for the L-39ZA variant. Same thing for a C-101, and then of course again for SA342M Gazelle, where base model would have been $ 49,99 and each variant (Mistral, L, Sniper team) would be $ 9,99.

I think that each such variant would offer fair income for the developer, as well fair price for fans to "collect them all".

But if someone comes and say "Pay $ 69,99 for AV-8B+" then I don't really accept it not even for -50% discount price as it starts to be a profiteering with too small changes.

But we need to spamram all the things. All planes need spamraam.

Let's make missions 1991 and you give them like 15x AIM-120 per month....

But then we can't fly F-16C, F/A-18C as those didn't exist at that time as is... for the HC players :-P

As the AV-8B+ flew first time in Sept.22, 1992.

Back to the Earth.

I never saw that any Third Party Dev. of DCS released the other vartiant for any module so forget about it ;) but +1 for idea.

Back to the Earth.

I never saw that any Third Party Dev. of DCS released the other vartiant for any module so forget about it ;) but +1 for idea.

SA342 received other variants later. And C-101 got light attack variant later.

And F-14A is coming, later again.

They never said they were ''going to'' persay. They have said they might do one, but it would be a separate module. Right now they're working on other stuff, so it is years away at best.

 

Imo, we've got enough multi-role BluFor fighters, we don't really need another, but whatevs

Don't jump the gun just because you don't remember it -- they said it was coming out when the Hornet got its radar.

As has been said already, the B+ variant does not require most of the work of a new aircraft -- just like in real life. IRL the B+s are largely recycled airframes with a fiber nosecone. Same engine as the B Night Attack, only difference is the greater amount of bleed air redirected to cool the avionics.

RAZBAM, please bring the B+ as soon as you can.

Don't jump the gun just because you don't remember it -- they said it was coming out when the Hornet got its radar.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=197357&page=1

@Fri13

Yeah, sure they can just ''copy paste'' Hornet's ''radar API'' in and have it all work in a jiffy. Surely, it's so simple, they just needed somebody to point it out to them @@

@exhausted

Yeah, just like half the people who bought the NS did so because they thought it would be for multiple aircraft in one purchase. Oddly, at no time in the lead up to that did I personally ever have that impression AT ALL and it worked out exactly as I expected.

People hear and see what they want to hear and see. I bought the Harrier back when it first came out, at no time did I ever have the impression I was getting more than one plane. The Plus was discussed as a maybe, with a lot of ambiguity but NEVER explicitly stated as being inbound or part of the original purchase definitively.

The F-14 on the other hand, was expressly sold as having both A and B models and campaigns for both included, as well as the Forrestal carrier. They are on the hook for that, with plenty of hard evidence. Not so for the Harrier.

All I see is Zeus saying they need the AG radar from ED for it, and they said similar fir the F-15E. However one was confirmed as inbound, the other was not.

@Fri13

Yeah, sure they can just ''copy paste'' Hornet's ''radar API'' in and have it all work in a jiffy. Surely, it's so simple, they just needed somebody to point it out to them @@

 

@exhausted

Yeah, just like half the people who bought the NS did so because they thought it would be for multiple aircraft in one purchase. Oddly, at no time in the lead up to that did I personally ever have that impression AT ALL and it worked out exactly as I expected.

 

People hear and see what they want to hear and see. I bought the Harrier back when it first came out, at no time did I ever have the impression I was getting more than one plane. The Plus was discussed as a maybe, with a lot of ambiguity but NEVER explicitly stated as being inbound or part of the original purchase definitively.

 

The F-14 on the other hand, was expressly sold as having both A and B models and campaigns for both included, as well as the Forrestal carrier. They are on the hook for that, with plenty of hard evidence. Not so for the Harrier.

 

All I see is Zeus saying they need the AG radar from ED for it, and they said similar fir the F-15E. However one was confirmed as inbound, the other was not.

Nobody ever mentioned copy and paste, nor do we abide by your expectations. Those are yours and yours alone.

They say you need to strike when the iron is hot; the iron's getting hot now that the APG-65 is getting its A-G modes. They said they'd do the B+ and now I'd like to hear Raz speak for themselves on it.

Nobody ever mentioned copy and paste, nor do we abide by your expectations. Those are yours and yours alone.

Yes, some people have expectations....

They say you need to strike when the iron is hot; the iron's getting hot now that the APG-65 is getting its A-G modes. They said they'd do the B+ and now I'd like to hear Raz speak for themselves on it.

Exactly. The Hornet is getting closer and closer feature completion, and as the A-G radar modes are one of the high priorities (IIRC it was #3 in the most wanted feature in the ED query) and likely it is better RAZBAM to wait that it is completely ready (all EXP modes etc) before starting to include it, unless it can be made in good order when ED is adding those.

But RAZBAM needs to spend little time now to update their intentions with AV-8B+, that are they still going to do it, or has they changed completely their minds?

As much as I'd love to see a B+, I'd bet it'll be another 10 years before we got it with all the aircraft on Razbam's plate right now. I'd also bet money that their Sea Harrier project has overtaken the AV-8B+ due to it being very relevant in their Falklands map. :)

Nobody ever mentioned copy and paste, nor do we abide by your expectations. Those are yours and yours alone.

 

They say you need to strike when the iron is hot; the iron's getting hot now that the APG-65 is getting its A-G modes. They said they'd do the B+ and now I'd like to hear Raz speak for themselves on it.

*Asks for info*

*Doesn't like info*

*Doesn't like further explanation*

Well, it kinda matters when my expectations, and mine alone, are based in reality as opposed to conjecture and wishful thinking. Asjing for the II+ is fine as a wishlist, but anybody that bought the NA expecting a + was grasping at straws. It may well be done, but it ain't gonna be anytime soon. But sure, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, so feel free to disregard it.

As much as I'd love to see a B+, I'd bet it'll be another 10 years before we got it with all the aircraft on Razbam's plate right now. I'd also bet money that their Sea Harrier project has overtaken the AV-8B+ due to it being very relevant in their Falklands map. :)

RAZBAM are not going to release any more modules until the Harrier, Mirage and MiG-19 are complete.

https://m.facebook.com/RazbamSims/posts/2633589856727636

Considering that they promised, and they are going all their power to honor it to complete the Harrier, M2000 and MiG-19P before releasing anything else, they can't be taken over by Sea Harrier or Falklands map.

They simply need to complete those three (let's give them some slack with the 2020 timetable, but hold accounted for the "three first") before get to see else.

And once the AV-8B N/A Harrier is feature complete, it is not so major job to make the AV-8B+ variant as it was to do overall Harrier etc.

But that doesn't mean they would move right away to do it as well, and hopefully they will keep in mind that they get to do more content for Harrier with it, as they open completely new side with it, not just A-G missions but actual strike missions as well. It will add more content as well for their Falkland map to be able use Harrier from their made carriers etc.

Asjing for the II+ is fine as a wishlist, but anybody that bought the NA expecting a + was grasping at straws.

Now you are just wishful that your passive aggressive negativity would be so...

How many times it is needed to present you that RAZBAM has said that they do it?

They even got a small storm when they tried to reverse about it, but they have come more clean in that:

We need DCS AG radar solution.

Is confirmation already. If they are not going to do it or plan to do it, they don't need A-G radar solution.

But go out and search the mentioned threads, or don't as you want to be grasping straws and stay in negativity.

And this is not their FIRST TIME they do AV-8B Harrier, they have done + variant for the MSFX 8 years ago. With a A/A and A/G radar modes.

They know the aircraft, they know the systems, they know they can do it from their side but they don't do own A-G radar functionality when ED is making one and is offering API for 3rd party studios. This is not their first rodeo when it comes to Harrier.

It may well be done, but it ain't gonna be anytime soon. But sure, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, so feel free to disregard it.

We are not talking about schedule, as your "anytime soon" can be our 10 years, or our "soon" can be 2-3 years to you.

*Asks for info*

*Doesn't like info*

*Doesn't like further explanation*

 

Well, it kinda matters when my expectations, and mine alone, are based in reality as opposed to conjecture and wishful thinking. Asjing for the II+ is fine as a wishlist, but anybody that bought the NA expecting a + was grasping at straws. It may well be done, but it ain't gonna be anytime soon. But sure, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, so feel free to disregard it.

Not sure if you're always like that. But if you only count what Fri13 said, I'd say we both got good information, or at least more than we had before he posted. And he's right -- Razbam needs to communicate to us on the B+.

It it senseless to see the progression go the Sea Harrier, as going to the AV-8B+ is a smaller leap than whichever version of the Sea Harrier. People aren't going to get much mileage out of the Sea Harrier compared to the B+. With the newest AV-8 you get the Harrier's versatility combined with greatly enhanced capability for air and ground attack. As Fri said, it is seriously opening up an entire new chapter on this under explored corner of modern air combat. But just because I don't see the sense in devoting much to the month-long Falklands scenario doesn't mean anybody should be deprived now that the announcement has been made.

We just need to sit back and see if Razbam will prioritize the Harrier B+