3080 reviews are out

Exactly! It’s always a chasing-the-tail exercise!

So if CPU performance is not an issue in DCS why move to Vulkan? Because CPU performance is the issue. We all know DCS is single threaded and in many cases it’s the CPU limiting performance. Now and in the future as more features like better damage modeling get added.

AFAIK that’s the reason any game or sim looks at Vulkan or DX12 vs DX11. Flight sims in particular because their CPU is loaded up with flight modeling, object numbers and large draw distances compared to other games.

Like if I go to the Supercarrier Cold Start mission, I’m getting about 50fps regardless of running 2160p or 1080p. That’s being CPU-limited. A new GPU like the 3080 won’t help this.

So if CPU performance is not an issue in DCS why move to Vulkan? Because CPU performance is the issue. We all know DCS is single threaded and in many cases it’s the CPU limiting performance. Now and in the future as more features like better damage modeling get added.

AFAIK that’s the reason any game or sim looks at Vulkan or DX12 vs DX11. Flight sims in particular because their CPU is loaded up with flight modeling, object numbers and large draw distances compared to other games.

Like if I go to the Supercarrier Cold Start mission, I’m getting about 50fps regardless of running 2160p or 1080p. That’s being CPU-limited. A new GPU like the 3080 won’t help this.

Do we really have to go through all this again? I didn't say that CPU performance isn't an issue in DCS, but for some, that's not where the bottleneck is.

Let me say again for the last time, that whether DCS is CPU or GPU bound is totally down to what hardware you have, and what settings you are using, particularly for SS etc.

For me, I am GPU bound most of the time in DCS VR, and Vulkan would not help that. However, if I bought a new GPU, the balance might change. Hence the tail-chasing I mentioned above!

Please can people stay on topic and discuss the 3080 and 3090? If you want to talk about CPU bottlenecks please start a new thread.

Please can people stay on topic and discuss the 3080 and 3090? If you want to talk about CPU bottlenecks please start a new thread.

+1

Please can people stay on topic and discuss the 3080 and 3090? If you want to talk about CPU bottlenecks please start a new thread.

The relationship between CPUs and GPUs in DCS is critical in the 3080/90 decision making process.

However, I totally agree that we shouldn’t have to go over it time and time again.

The relationship between CPUs and GPUs in DCS is critical in the 3080/90 decision making process.

 

However, I totally agree that we shouldn’t have to go over it time and time again.

Indeed. And most people already understand that. And they also know based on their own use case how much of the time they are CPU bound and how often it is the GPU that is bounding their performance. Hence the wish to get BACK ON TOPIC. And the desire of learn from the experience of lucky community members that have taken delivery of an Ampere card and are now using it in our preferred application.

Indeed. And most people already understand that. And they also know based on their own use case how much of the time they are CPU bound and how often it is the GPU that is bounding their performance. Hence the wish to get BACK ON TOPIC. And the desire of learn from the experience of lucky community members that have taken delivery of an Ampere card and are now using it in our preferred application.

From what I read in these forums, I wouldn’t say most people do understand that.

IMO, discussions/reviews on GPUs performance in DCS, including the 3080, most certainly should include a CPU aspect.

We've been through it multiple times and it is getting very, very boring. I want information on the new GPUs with DCS and VR. I am not interested on opinions about CPU limiting DCS. I simply ask that people that want to share their opinions about that do it in a thread about CPU vs GPU throttling separate to this one. Is that too much to ask?

Please can people stay on topic and discuss the 3080 and 3090? If you want to talk about CPU bottlenecks please start a new thread.

The CPU bottleneck is relevant.

Why is this relevant to a new very powerful graphics card? Because it means you may just not see any performance benefit from it.

The DCS “EDGE” engine is primarily single threaded on the CPU. That makes most situations in the game CPU limited. This is why ED is looking at Vulkan.

I want information on the new GPUs with DCS and VR. I am not interested on opinions about CPU limiting DCS.

You can’t separate the two aspects. Especially since VR is CPU limited to a higher degree than a monitor. Again it means that a 3080 likely won’t improve your performance in VR at all. But it will be interesting to see some accounts of people upgrading to it.

We've been through it multiple times and it is getting very, very boring. I want information on the new GPUs with DCS and VR. I am not interested on opinions about CPU limiting DCS. I simply ask that people that want to share their opinions about that do it in a thread about CPU vs GPU throttling separate to this one. Is that too much to ask?

It is relevant, and certainly doesn’t stop you getting information on the new GPUs in any way.

Discussions on the link between CPU and GPU is pretty important in the DCS VR discussion and you can see the two very different opinions are being given here. So, it is clearly not obvious!

Discussions on the link between CPU and GPU is pretty important in the DCS VR discussion and you can see the two very different opinions are being given here.

How the game engine works isn’t a opinion.

No, but pretty sure FS2020 is CPU limited. Single core is hammered. Changing graphic settings makes very little difference to fps on that title for me.

I have an old i-7 3770 and looking at the Resource Monitor while in MSFS2020, all CPUs are being used. I don't really understand the difference between threads and CPUs ( but I THINK they are the same).

I have an old i-7 3770 and looking at the Resource Monitor while in MSFS2020, all CPUs are being used. I don't really understand the difference between threads and CPUs ( but I THINK they are the same).

A “CPU” has many “cores” ie 4 of them on a 3770. Each core gets a “thread”. They all might get used but one of them reaching its limit will bottleneck the game. Hence “single thread performance” is a key attribute for a CPU used for sims like this. DCS actually uses two cores I believe but one of them is primary and will set the performance you get. MSFS will say “main thread limited” meaning that single thread is limiting your performance.

I have an old i-7 3770 and looking at the Resource Monitor while in MSFS2020, all CPUs are being used. I don't really understand the difference between threads and CPUs ( but I THINK they are the same).

Detailed analysis here.

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/microsoft-flight-simulator-benchmarks-performance-system-requirements#:~:text=Microsoft%20Flight%20Simulator%20CPU%20Performance&text=Somewhat%20surprisingly%2C%20higher%20clockspeeds%20and,a%20similar%20level%20of%20performance.

Basically, a 6-core CPU is optimal for MSFS according to their testing. So if your CPU has more than 6 cores it can't take advantage of that. And if your CPU has lower than 6 cores then it is no good either. DCS is of course worse (not in terms of FPS, but in CPU utilization). As you can see from that link, there is no significant advantage of 9900K over 9600K. So, what can you do about being CPU limited at low resolution such as 1080p? Not much unless you have an old CPU with a few cores and upgrade to a newer CPU. However, performance gain at higher resolution is definitely possible. If your CPU is relatively modern, upgrading the CPU will not help and the only thing that would yield significant gain is by upgrading GPU.

At resolution beyond 1080p such as 1440p you can see that higher tier GPUs start to pull ahead in terms of FPS (38.7 for 1080Ti vs 50 for Titan RTX). And the performance increase also scales nicely upward from 2070 to the Titan).

There are some FPS gain from Intel i9 over Ryzen or i3 below 4K resolution. However, at 4K the GPU dictates the overall FPS and that FPS gain is also quite significant between 2080Ti and 5700XT.

For me, DCS is barely VR playable. Reducing the resolution or even reducing graphic setting in VR on my 2080 TI does very little. This game is just not optimized to use the horsepower of today's hardware. Two years ago, I upgraded from a watercooled Pascal Titan Xp and now I have a Bios modded and Power Modded watercooled MSI Sea Hawk Ek X running at over 2100mhz with a with a +700 Vram offset; Stable. The CPU is a 9900K @ 5ghz on all cores. My Son has the same GPU on a stock 7700k and we get the same exact frame rate regardless of the resolution. DCS NEEDS Massive optimization in it's basic code, Vulcan is sorely needed.

Most of us have hardware specs not to show off, but so people can see how a situation ("barely playable") relates to a particular set of hardware.

2100MHz is slow by today's standards and VR really does benefit from faster RAM. And you're good on 9900K running at 5GHz.

What VR HMD do you have? Is it Pimax by any chance?

Also, what settings in WMR/SteamVR/DCS is in play? For example, recently there was a person who was having a horrible experience. But he was supersampling in SteamVR, and also in DCS via Pixel Density option.

How the game engine works isn’t a opinion.

Didn’t say it was. That was/is not the issue as you well know.

Didn’t say it was. That was/is not the issue as you well know.

What is the issue then? You lost me...

This thread is about 3080 performance and I’m pointing out the potential CPU bottleneck in DCS

How do you know that you’re GPU limited in DCS? I know MSFS is off topic here really but for comparison, and since it has the Dev console to tell you this, I see 100% GPU utilization in MSFS and yet also that I’m CPU limited. That leads me to think that just seeing your GPU at 100% does not necessarily mean it’s your bottleneck.

As I said, I don't use MSAA. I find it makes no difference on my 31" monitor and I don't like the effect it has on cockpit dials.

 

That's where your frames have gone.

Which means DCS is GPU limited at 4K Max detail settings. So even on a flatscreen, I'll see a performance uplift going from the 2080 Ti to the 3090. Now I just gotta get my hands on one - going to be over AU$3000 here in Australia (equates to about US$2130). Ouch. And yes, I've seen the new leaked 3090 benches that show it's only 10 to 20% faster than the 3080. So be it. :(

So if CPU performance is not an issue in DCS why move to Vulkan? Because CPU performance is the issue. We all know DCS is single threaded and in many cases it’s the CPU limiting performance. Now and in the future as more features like better damage modeling get added.

ED just admitted that Vulkan ain't gonna be a thing for a looooong time - which means 2-3 years at the very least. This was kinda obvious for anyone who has been following this studio for the better part of 20 years and also knows how hard it is to convert software to multithreading, but to see them saying it in a video should finally put the Vulkan talk to bed.

It ain't gonna happen in DCS or MAC.

ED just admitted that Vulkan ain't gonna be a thing for a looooong time - which means 2-3 years at the very least. This was kinda obvious for anyone who has been following this studio for the better part of 20 years and also knows how hard it is to convert software to multithreading, but to see them saying it in a video should finally put the Vulkan talk to bed.

 

It ain't gonna happen in DCS or MAC.

That's so disappointing to hear.

With CPU's close to their theoretical limit (the hope being more threads than clock speed) and the GPU not being utilisied in the best way with the current coding - I'm guessing this means what we have is what we've got for some years to come. Sure -we may be able to get a bit more MSAA, shadows or pixels as slight improvements with the 3080 (or 3090) - but as far as a major change we're quite some time off.

I suspected this (as I understand myself single to multithread is a huge step), but was kinda hoping that I may have been wrong. :cry_2:

2100MHz is slow by today's standards

For whom lol people on liquid nitrogen? Are you high?

Stop trying to gatekeep overclocked GPUs.

ED just admitted that Vulkan ain't gonna be a thing for a looooong time - which means 2-3 years at the very least. This was kinda obvious for anyone who has been following this studio for the better part of 20 years and also knows how hard it is to convert software to multithreading, but to see them saying it in a video should finally put the Vulkan talk to bed.

 

It ain't gonna happen in DCS or MAC.

No surprise about the Vulcan version. Look at the Hornet, a single aircraft that was released in May 30th 2018 and still not completed more than 2 years later. That is just one aircraft, imagine creating a brand new DCS World engine...not a small task for small developer.

What is the issue then? You lost me...

This thread is about 3080 performance and I’m pointing out the potential CPU bottleneck in DCS

 

How do you know that you’re GPU limited in DCS? I know MSFS is off topic here really but for comparison, and since it has the Dev console to tell you this, I see 100% GPU utilization in MSFS and yet also that I’m CPU limited. That leads me to think that just seeing your GPU at 100% does not necessarily mean it’s your bottleneck.

Which means DCS is GPU limited at 4K Max detail settings. So even on a flatscreen, I'll see a performance uplift going from the 2080 Ti to the 3090. Now I just gotta get my hands on one - going to be over AU$3000 here in Australia (equates to about US$2130). Ouch. And yes, I've seen the new leaked 3090 benches that show it's only 10 to 20% faster than the 3080. So be it. :(

See why people are confused?

...not a small task for small developer.

ED's CEO wrote that 100 devs work on the core. That's not small in my book.

ED's CEO wrote that 100 devs work on the core. That's not small in my book.

Interesting, where did you read that? Seems very surprising.