Pitching down moment due to flap deflection...

To call the attention of the developers to this subject which other users referred to in another thread on general observations about the comparison between the real and the simulated Yak-52, and following Yo-Yo's response to the "pitching up" moment that can be experienced when deflecting the Yak 52 Flaps, namely the one in this post:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3588729&postcount=55

I would just like to suggest that as implemented in the Spitfire Mk. IX, a stick deflection due to the change of trim, forcing the virtual pilot to pull the stick in the case of the Spitfire, could also be modelled in the Yak-52.

This way, whenever flaps were lowered, we could see the virtual stick deflecting fwd, and be forced to pull it back.

Good input. Same goes for the flare. To be honest, I never quite understood Yo-Yos obsession with the stick free vs. stick fixed issue.

If the real Yak-52 pitches down with flap extension and decaying speed, I would expect a similar pitch moment in a Yak-52 'simulator' where 99% of the users are using conventional joysticks/yokes.

Since this is not a real Yak-52, experiencing the opposite behavior than IRL doesn't make much sense to me.

The real YK52 pitches up with initial flap selection.

The real YK52 pitches up with initial flap selection.

I didn't say it didn't - just gave the Spitfire example as an interesting alternative to the stick fixed vs stick free approach.

The force felt in the stick, in the real Yak-52, could as well be modeled by a slight stick deflection that the pilot will naturally counter, just like in the Spitfire Mk. IX module.

Nobody has bothered to ask one of the real Yak pilots around here if the pitch moment is realistic. Everyone just wants it changed because it inconveniences them.

Nobody has bothered to ask one of the real Yak pilots around here if the pitch moment is realistic. Everyone just wants it changed because it inconveniences them.

That's a rather weird and simply wrong assumption. Jcomms question is related to this I assume:

- the plane trims at lower AoA due to nose-down moment from the flaps.

Two simple questions for the real Yak-52 pilots:

1. Does the Yak-52 pitch up on its own during the flare?

2. Does the nose up moment increase with decreasing speed when approaching the stall?

@IvanK; What do you consider 'initial' flap selection?

Indeed as @bbrz explains above, regarding my observation on Yo-Yo's reply

It's worth what it's worth, but this video shows no such a pitch-up tendency followed by significant stick deflection on landing - 360º view video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fkuJXzdFMM

The initial part is a short circuit with touch & go, then aerobatics, and then you can skip towards the end ( 9:50 ) to watch the landing.

Don't forget to use the mouse with left button to pan around 360º ...

Interesting. The only time he had to re-trim (nose up!) is after the gear extension when the speed dropped.

One or two pilots = very different balance in Yak, so different reaction.

Ah! Good hint Yo-Yo !!!

In the video the pilot is flying alone, in DCS World since I installed the Yak-52 module I only use the Quick Missions and takeoff or landing scenarios...

I didn't check if those include a tandem pilot, but if that's the case then indeed the reaward CoG will certainly play a role.

Will check that latter today.

Thx :thumbup:

One or two pilots = very different balance in Yak, so different reaction.

As usual, ask 2 pilots and you get 3 different answers. ;)

The Yak-52 pilot I talked to two days ago said that he doesn't experience any difference in handling and/or pitch stability with a guy in the back seat.

Look at this Yak-52 W&B diagram and the CofG position. I don't see how the weight of a guy in back is not going to affect the handling/feel of the aircraft.

It's a new word in flight dynamics... 120 kg passenger in the rear cabinet makes the plane near neutral, and a loop was performed by a small stick movement.

hat off ..you really make time to explain your work to noobs searching wiki ... and I thought my job is hard :))) inspiring patience :book:

Look at this Yak-52 W&B diagram and the CofG position. I don't see how the weight of a guy in back is not going to affect the handling/feel of the aircraft.

I know this diagram, that's why I asked him in the first place.

It's a new word in flight dynamics... 120 kg passenger in the rear cabinet makes the plane near neutral, and a loop was performed by a small stick movement.

Yo-Yo, with a 120kg pax in the rear seat you get near neutral stability. Without the 120kg passenger in the rear seat how much stick movement would be required to perform the same loop? More/less or the same stick movement?

bbrz, I find it highly unlikely in an aircraft of this size with tandem seating, there is no noticeable difference in handling and/or pitch stability with the extra weight of a pax in the back seat.

I have a regular TM Warthog stick but with a short extension, what kind of deadzone/saturation/curvature settings would give me the most realistic feel in terms of stick movement?

In teh Quick Missions I edited, I can't see where the rear pilot / pax is defined ?

How can we "add / subtract" a rear pilot in the Mission Editor ?

So a little offtopic, may I suggest adding option to set copilot's weight in popup rearm window? :]

And his meal status - a slider from "Hungry" to "Full". And...

:) Or like in another sim company’s J-3 Cub, you could select whether the passenger is calm, nervous, fun loving with appropriate vocalizations—or silent. The latter often the best.

Single pilot Yak is much more stable, so you need more movement to get the same g-load.

 

4 g flight and 1 g flight as a reference point/

 

1 and 2 - 1 man

3 and 4 - 2 men.

Thank you Yo-Yo.

And his meal status - a slider from "Hungry" to "Full". And...

:megalol::lol: good one !