ECM upgrades

The purpose of this is to get a very nice progression of program bumping using your 'CM program change' switch as you are fighting.

This is why you the "panic button", which release both chaff and flare.

And finally you will be able to edit as you want.

No need to fight on this...

BVR close/ dogfight would be the same as panic button.

It does sound better but on the other hand the name PANIC gives a better feel about how dangerous the situation is.

Ok a little bit of feedback here,

I personally don't care what "feel" the naming of a button conveys, but I think it would be helpful to find some consistency, in the first image, it is called the EMERG button, but then you call it a PANIC release, make the button description match the hotkey description in the control options and all should be good.

Users currently have to collect their information on the plane's functionality on the forums mostly, which is fine for a beta module I guess, but having little bits of info laying around in different threads just causes confusion, not to mention that there are functionalities posted that don't work as described due to bugs, and one has to do a good amount of searching to get a good picture of what state the plane currently is in.

Consistency with labeling and naming is very helpful in this case and am sure would be greatly appreciated by people who just got the module and now are browsing the forums for info.

Anyway, great module I enjoy it very much, keep it up RAZBAM you are doing a fine job !:thumbsup:

But that would probably be solved by the D2M, right? I rarely use flares unless I see a launch but hear no warning. It gives away your position too much and make you an easy target for just about anyone with half-decent SA.

Not fighting jojo, I just think these things should be well arranged by default.

You may optimize as you like, but it should be well constructed to begin with IMHO :)

This is why you the "panic button", which release both chaff and flare.

And finally you will be able to edit as you want.

 

No need to fight on this...

 

BVR close/ dogfight would be the same as panic button.

I agree with the idea of arranging the programs order in accordance with expected decreasing range, but not with the idea of releasing flare in BVR. As said above flare give away your position to everybody.

I agree with the idea of arranging the programs order in accordance with expected decreasing range, but not with the idea of releasing flare in BVR. As said above flare give away your position to everybody.

+1

Sorry, I can't create a table right now but my suggestion for A2A is that:

 

Add a single flare(or two, up to you) to the BVR programs.

 

Add the 'BVR close' program which accounts for T/ET if you don't add the flares above - should be like BVR 1 with 10 chaff, 3 flares. Otherwise, ignore this one.

 

Add the 'Dogfight' program which might be like the 'AG Mix' ... but bear with me as to why I'd like to see it duplicated.

 

Order the programs like this:

 

BVR 1

BVR 2

BVR 3

BVR Close

Dogfight

SAM 1

SAM 2

AG Mix

IR Sam

 

Put the "Flare' and "Chaff' programs either at the beginning, or just before the jettison program at the end.

 

The purpose of this is to get a very nice progression of program bumping using your 'CM program change' switch as you are fighting.

I am open to suggestions. If you think you can improve the default table, then post it here. The default mix is not set in stone, yet. :smartass:

I don't want a fight on this either so please keep it civil.

I'm looking for a way for you to be able to load your custom programs but the problem is quite complex.

Ditto on the buttons names. I don't want to use EMERG, because there are a lot of EMERG (SECOURS) buttons scattered throughout the aircraft so I used PANIC instead in part thanks to the PANIC buttons that stores use to call the police in case of robbery.

Also, I want to know which is the best release mode for Chaff+Flare mix:

1. Serial (Flares then Chaff). (Current mode)

2. Interleaved (Flare, Chaff, Flare, etc).

3. Parallel (Flare and Chaff, Flare and Chaff).

As said above flare give away your position to everybody.

So would an AIM-9 to the face. :)

I think everyone is onboard with GG's point in having a fluid selection but like you pointed out earlier, for any unexpected events the emergency release counters the IR threat be it from BVR or entering the merge from a BVR engagement.

But on the other hand if you have BVR with chaff only and also an option with chaff and flares you then have the option to select the correct BVR program suited to the briefed enemy and engagement profile.

On another note. I only have a single light (LL) in the RWR to indicate CMD status.

So far it works as follows:

DRP Knob in A position: LL is Off.

DRP Knob between 1 to 10 position:

DRM in A position: LL blinks fast (2 blinks per second).

DRM in SA position: LL blink slow (1 blink per second).

DRM in AU position: LL steady.

Now I want to implement ERROR codes, like the ones that my Plasma TV has:

LL blinks three times per second: No flares

LL blinks four times per second: No chaff.

LL Blinks five times per second: CMD is off line (either No chaff and flares or the system is damaged).

But I am not sure how feasible this is. So I am asking for your opinion on this one.

In RL this is a programmed option, because the buckets can be triggered any way you want most of the time.

In order to make things simple, I would very strongly suggest parallel.

Also, I want to know which is the best release mode for Chaff+Flare mix:

 

1. Serial (Flares then Chaff). (Current mode)

2. Interleaved (Flare, Chaff, Flare, etc).

3. Parallel (Flare and Chaff, Flare and Chaff).

There's actually nothing wrong with displaying a dedicated BIT symbol on the RWR, unless you know that such symbols are not present, ie:

a C and F with / through the letter.

A voice announciator 'chaff empty, flare empty' is also not uncommon in RL.

But I am not sure how feasible this is. So I am asking for your opinion on this one.

They are fired in sequence. Flares are fired first, followed by chaff.

 

The interval rate is quite high, but I am not an expert on this. I do know that the interval should be calculated to give time to:

 

a. Create a large target area

b. Prevent the decoys to bunch up

c. Prevent the decoys from dispersing too much.

 

If anybody has any suggestion regarding mix and interval. We are willing to listen. As I said in my OP, these are not based on any real load.

The interval in the table on the first post has AG mix with a 10xHigher release rate than other programs, I think it's a typo in your table.

Does the Panic release "override" an active program?

There's actually nothing wrong with displaying a dedicated BIT symbol on the RWR, unless you know that such symbols are not present, ie:

 

a C and F with / through the letter.

 

A voice announciator 'chaff empty, flare empty' is also not uncommon in RL.

Since the RWR is our interpretation of it, I can add those.

The interval in the table on the first post has AG mix with a 10xHigher release rate than other programs, I think it's a typo in your table.

I'll check.

Does the Panic release "override" an active program?

Now, that is a good question. I'll check. :book:

On another note. I only have a single light (LL) in the RWR to indicate CMD status.

 

So far it works as follows:

 

DRP Knob in A position: LL is Off.

DRP Knob between 1 to 10 position:

DRM in A position: LL blinks fast (2 blinks per second).

DRM in SA position: LL blink slow (1 blink per second).

DRM in AU position: LL steady.

 

Now I want to implement ERROR codes, like the ones that my Plasma TV has:

 

LL blinks three times per second: No flares

LL blinks four times per second: No chaff.

LL Blinks five times per second: CMD is off line (either No chaff and flares or the system is damaged).

 

But I am not sure how feasible this is. So I am asking for your opinion on this one.

I would say CMD damaged or out of stores should be the same blinking frequency as the one the RWR uses when damaged. So that is an consistent "system powered but not functional" signal.

For other error codes I would go for steady and every few seconds a number of differently timed blinks. Thats how its done with most of the devices I worked with, since counting a number of blinks is way easier in general then tell apart 4hz and 5hz or the time something is lit up.

So I would go for same blinking frequency as for the DA if stores are depleted or system is damaged.

Off => off

Then divide DRM switch state and stores state.

DRM blinks are long, store state blinks are short.

DRM A => 2 long blinks

DRM SA => 1 long blink

DRM AU => no blink

No chaff => 2 short blinks

No flare => 1 short blink

Short blink should be really just a flash while the DRM state blinks should be a lot longer.

Between the blinking sequences its steady.

So in case my explanation wasnt clear some examples:

DRP between 1 and 10, DRM SA, full stores => 2 seconds solid, 1 long blink, 2 seconds solid, 1 long blink....

DRP between 1 and 10, DRM SA, no chaff => 2 seconds solid, 1 long blink, 2 short flashes...

DRP between 1 and 10, DRM AU, full stores => solid, there is really nothing to be worried :D

DRP between 1 and 10, DRM A, no chaff => 2 seconds solid, 2 long blink, 2 short flashes...

Think should be clear now, and is, IMHO, way easier to tell apart then a frequency and also tells you both states at a time. :)

And I agree that release in programs should be parallel.

this all is so complicated, I'll just continue deploying manually :(

Well... you will have to deal with programs when releasing manually too...

this all is so complicated, I'll just continue deploying manually :(

I'm afraid that the current manual option will no longer be available upon update.

Also, I want to know which is the best release mode for Chaff+Flare mix:

 

1. Serial (Flares then Chaff). (Current mode)

2. Interleaved (Flare, Chaff, Flare, etc).

3. Parallel (Flare and Chaff, Flare and Chaff).

I would like to second the parallel dispensing of chaff and flare for the panic mode. Preferably, and if possible with 0.25s interval for chaff (6x) and double that 0.5s for flares (3x). That way the program finishes dispensing both types at the same time.

By the way, the BVR programs make a lot of sense from the point of view of the epoch in which the Mirage was introduced; only SARH missiles were expected. The program button is probably not designed to be fiddled with during combat, so I don't think that the sequence of programs really matter. You are not going to gradually move the button as your range to the bandit decreases, you have plenty of workload already with the radar, RWR and sticking your eyes out of the cockpit to spot visually. From my point of view this button is like your setup for bombs; you will select the correct fusing, ripple and interval long before your drop the stores, based on your attack profile and the expected target.

BTW I forgot: @zeus67 do you plan to change the mechanic of the in-cockpit button for program selection? Currently it is a continuous potentiometer-like movement; it would be a lot easier for mouse manipulation if it becomes a sequence of discrete positions.

I am open to suggestions. If you think you can improve the default table, then post it here. The default mix is not set in stone, yet. :smartass:

I don't want a fight on this either so please keep it civil.

I'm looking for a way for you to be able to load your custom programs but the problem is quite complex.

 

Ditto on the buttons names. I don't want to use EMERG, because there are a lot of EMERG (SECOURS) buttons scattered throughout the aircraft so I used PANIC instead in part thanks to the PANIC buttons that stores use to call the police in case of robbery.

 

Also, I want to know which is the best release mode for Chaff+Flare mix:

 

1. Serial (Flares then Chaff). (Current mode)

2. Interleaved (Flare, Chaff, Flare, etc).

3. Parallel (Flare and Chaff, Flare and Chaff).

I think either 2 or 3 would be fine with 3 being preferable, granted they drop at the same rate in any case. The first one seems less usefull since dropping either one first has the potential to be the 'wrong' order.

afaik you just want to get a moderate amount of countermeasures out in a short time for best results, which you can then repeat as often as necessary. Without having to worry about the particular order in which things happen.

I'm afraid that the current manual option will no longer be available upon update.

How does the M2000C RDI show inoperative equipment exhaustion (chaff/flare) IRL? Any info on that? If so, I say go for realism, however since the topic already created I imagine you got no info on that, right?

If so, I believe in you as a Dev, I assume you already got this somewhat envisioned, possibly making this thread more of a poll. Whatever the outcome, good luck.

How does the M2000C RDI show inoperative equipment exhaustion (chaff/flare) IRL? Any info on that? If so, I say go for realism, however since the topic already created I imagine you got no info on that, right?

 

If so, I believe in you as a Dev, I assume you already got this somewhat envisioned, possibly making this thread more of a poll. Whatever the outcome, good luck.

You have two options at this time:

CM Box indicates current chaff and flare count.

LL light will blink steadily when it cannot work either by malfunction or stores exhaustion.

You have two options at this time:

 

CM Box indicates current chaff and flare count.

LL light will blink steadily when it cannot work either by malfunction or stores exhaustion.

Then I vote #1

The following changes have been made:

Chaff and Flare mix are now launched in parallel (both at the same time).

Built-in Jammer:

The jammer works as follows:

V and BR status lights are being reworked.

By default, when changing MODE to the [] position the jammer will start to emit.

Note: I think these tables explain better how these devices work. :smartass: