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[Wishlist] ATHS Map Markers


Ramsay

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Airborne Target Handover System F10 Map Markers

 

TL;DR:

 

Hi, I don't know how in depth (if at all) you plan to simulate the Airborne Target Handover System (ATHS) but wondered if using it to add F10 map markers would be possible in DCS ?

 

Detail

 

If I've understood correctly AIR NET is used to talk to other air units and TACFIRE to call in artillery.

 

So wondered if perhaps using one or part of the ATHS TACFIRE menus to create F10 map markers for Combined Arms players (simulating a TACFIRE request within the limits of DCS) might be feasible ?

 

AV-8B CAS

 

If so, would it be possible to make the Map Marker ID (i.e. Artillery Ref.) compatible with Razbam's AV-8B ATHS CAS Markers i.e. T1, T2, etc. require alphanumeric support.

 

AFAIK the AV-8B's ATHS (Automatic Target Handoff System) is incompatible the OH-58D's ATHS, so we'd be simulating an embedded USMC JTAC working in/with an Artillery section and forwarding a CAS request.

 

AV-8B players press "RAlt+RShift+8" to request/receive the location of ATHS CAS F10 Map Markers, there's no requirement for the Harrier to 'talk' to the OH-58D module.

 

This is a speculative suggestion and won't effect my purchasing decision.

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Great question Ramsey, and shows you've done some research!

ATHS was antiquated by the mid-2000s, and replaced with JVMF (Joint Variable Message Format) protocol. The ATHS remained in the aircraft, however it wasn't ever used for anything after 2004 or so.

I believe PC will implement some form of digital messaging replicating some of the functions of JVMF, but I'm not 100% sure what.

IRL the sad truth is that; due to various reasons in which the services chose to upgrade and modernize their aircraft, the Army's use of digital messaging for targeting was extremely limited. There was no digital inter-connectivity with fixed-wing platforms for targeting. Also, because the artillery branch and aviation branch modernized their programs in a changing budget environment, priorities and requirements changed and eventually incompatibilities developed. Also: There just wasn't much need for digital fires coordination in the last 15 years, so it wasn't used much (at all).

That said, a limited capability did exist, and for gameplay purposes I'd like to see some functionality too.

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There just wasn't much need for digital fires coordination in the last 15 years, so it wasn't used much (at all).

That said, a limited capability did exist, and for gameplay purposes I'd like to see some functionality too.

 

I think I used JVMF exactly 3 times, once was how to use it, once was practice and once was the check ride. I can see it being useful in DCS if you find a column of tanks or another similar target and want to drop it, but as already said, it wasn't really used in practice.

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The main thing would be for compatibility with other strike ac like the harrier.

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For those interested: here's an example of a real-world (practice) ATHS digital fire mission employing the Copperhead laser-guided 155mm artillery round. Pertinent to this discussion is the lag between the digital messages being sent back and forth, and what is actually occurring.

All the "actual" coordination to fire the mission is conducted via voice, with the digital messages being sent in conjunction. Pay close attention to the messages displayed on the left side of the screen: You'll see "Ready", "Fire", "Shot", "Designate", and a time-of-flight countdown timer on the right. You'll notice the timing of the digital messages becomes de-synced with what's actually happening. This is due to the technical limitations of the system. Had the crew waited to designate according the the digital prompts, the round would have never captured laser energy and become a lost round. Everything is backed via voice.

 

That said; Link16 is a far more capable protocol, and is gaining more widespread use, even in the Army with the Apache "E" model.

 

The idea of digital interconnected aerial battle force is somewhat of a fallacy, particularly when considering cross-service operations. Forget about joint national and coalition operations. Just getting voice radios to work is a major undertaking IRL.

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