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Landing in the Bf 109K-4


fjacobsen

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OK. I think I have a solution to what I think is basically a high speed ground handling problem. (I can three point touchdown without bounce most of the time.) Before every flight I'll taxi - at varying speeds - the complete length of the runway and back. This will provide huge amounts of braking and steering practice, rather than the once per landing I'm getting now.

 

I've regarded the moving around on the ground bit as a bit boring up until now so have been avoiding it, but I've just given it a try and guess what? Learning a new skill is interesting.

 

Edit for jcomm: The VKB does allow left and right braking with a key combo. I'll just have to learn to dab the things instead of using progressive braking. Until I can justify a Slaw Device to my bank account :/


Edited by Red Hayek
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I'll get stick for saying this but the second it's down, watch the turn indicator, it will give you an earlier indication of the swing.

 

All the real life pilots (I am not one) will tell you eyes out the cockpit not on the instruments BUT in real life you can feel the side force in a simm you cannot.

 

Eventually it becomes second nature but that tip was what enabled me to land consistently.

 

The Dora for me is the second most difficult to land (Spit is worse but for entirely different reasons). If you are getting onto the runway with the gear struts intact then you are 99% there

 

Practice Practice Practice..................stick at it.........it will just suddenly snap into place and that's a really sweet moment.


Edited by Weegie
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I'll get stick for saying this but the second it's down, watch the turn indicator, it will give you an earlier indication of the swing.

I found it better to keep my eyes on where I'm going. It takes some practice but in the end my eyes tell me whether I'm beginning to yaw left or right, and I developed reflexes to react. Zoom out a bit so you get better visual feedback!

Just after touchdown you have enough speed for using the rudder to correct. The Bf-109's rudder is relatively small and therefore allows gentle control.

It's only when you have slowed down some that you have to use gentle taps on the wheelbrakes to correct course.

My (mostly past) failure modes:

1. final approach too slow, caused me to sink too fast

2. vertical speed at the runway threshold too high (should be less than 2 m/s)

3. cut the throttle before I was low enough. I now keep manifold pressure at 0.65 ata until touchdown

4. forgot to lock the tailwheel before touchdown

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Actually, if you do the 3-point landing, you can apply full breaks as soon as you touch down. I prefer 2-point landing on busy airfields, as I have better visuals on the runway, but that takes a lot of practice to be able to master it, especially in crosswind conditions.

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2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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Actually, if you do the 3-point landing, you can apply full breaks as soon as you touch down. I prefer 2-point landing on busy airfields, as I have better visuals on the runway, but that takes a lot of practice to be able to master it, especially in crosswind conditions.

I find it very difficult to push both brake pedals by exactly the same amount. If I brake strongly with both feet I end up doing unwanted differential braking.

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You should also trim the nose up, just enough not to fight with the nose down tendency when applying full breaks. Rudder becomes ineffective upon losing speed so you have to use the breaks to efficiently steer it. Practice makes perfection :)

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I find it very difficult to push both brake pedals by exactly the same amount. If I brake strongly with both feet I end up doing unwanted differential braking.

 

 

 

what pedals do you use?

 

 

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what pedals do you use?

 

 

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I find it very difficult to push both brake pedals by exactly the same amount. If I brake strongly with both feet I end up doing unwanted differential braking.

 

Dance on it. Better to dance on both than to try add symmetrical input. The last is not practically achieved.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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shouldnt it be asymmetrical and random? like stepping on the ball while also watching peripheral canopy to runway relation?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Dance on it. Better to dance on both than to try add symmetrical input. The last is not practically achieved.

 

+1

 

That's exactly that works for me. :thumbup:

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I think the philosophy here is.. you lead the dance. :)

 

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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  • 6 months later...

Trying some field landings with the new terrain mesh on Caucasus.

 

  • Like 1

9./JG27

 

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I already have... a couple times actually :)

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

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Excellent video and control!

 

Congratulations DefaultFace - now you have to try flying a glider IRL !

 

I’m also looking forward to Condor V2.

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  • 1 year later...

If DCS's BF-109 modeling were true, all Luftwaffe pilot would have died in a takeoff and landing accident at the time of WW2.

There will be no good aces. some DCS aircraft odd flight model of certain ww2 and jet planes (unsteady or unstable pitches / drifing , too heavy torque )

if DCS flight model is true all aircraft workers desginer will be angry.

No matter how pc games, excessive flight modeling is not high reproducibility. DCS fanboys should know

 

plus, i cant find any video of real flight K-4 , What ED did make FM? RC plane? LOL


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If DCS's BF-109 modeling were true, all Luftwaffe pilot would have died in a takeoff and landing accident at the time of WW2.

There will be no good aces. some DCS aircraft odd flight model of certain ww2 and jet planes (unsteady or unstable pitches / drifing , too heavy torque )

if DCS flight model is true all aircraft workers desginer will be angry.

No matter how pc games, excessive flight modeling is not high reproducibility. DCS fanboys should know

 

plus, i cant find any video of real flight K-4 , What ED did make FM? RC plane? LOL

 

you are quite true around 30% loses among german pilots during ww2 were coused by t/o and landing accidents that is a fact.

Once you learn it, it will become easy as breathing

Beside new engine and couple aerodinamics improvments realy dont differ much from other Bf 109s, it will behave similar at t/o and landing


Edited by grafspee

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If DCS's BF-109 modeling were true, all Luftwaffe pilot would have died in a takeoff and landing accident at the time of WW2.

There will be no good aces. some DCS aircraft odd flight model of certain ww2 and jet planes (unsteady or unstable pitches / drifing , too heavy torque )

if DCS flight model is true all aircraft workers desginer will be angry.

No matter how pc games, excessive flight modeling is not high reproducibility. DCS fanboys should know

 

plus, i cant find any video of real flight K-4 , What ED did make FM? RC plane? LOL

 

1. What makes you an authority on the handling characteristics of a Bf 109K-4? Are you a real world pilot with much experience of handling 1940's era piston powered fighter aircraft? If so, have you flown a real world late model 109?

 

2. There are plenty of great DCS Bf 109K-4 drivers out there and I've had the privilege of fighting against them. They seem to fly the plane very adequately and since they operate from cold ramp start on the same multiplayer servers I do, one assumes they have mastered the takeoff and landing portions of flight.

 

3. You are aware that the Fighter Collection, based in the UK, owners and operators of vintage WW2 aircraft are publishers of DCS and that Nick Grey, their CEO and a widely experienced operator of these vintage aircraft, works in close co-operation with Yo-yo, the lead FM developer for DCS?

 

4. There are no Bf 109K-4s currently in airworthy condition; there are however some late model Daimler-Benz equipped restored 109s airworthy. However...

 

How much do you think having real world examples is useful in developing an FM? Do you think that flight sim developers borrow rare and exceedingly expensive vintage aircraft and fill them with magical black boxes to get data? Do you think the owners of these aircraft will allow them to operate these near priceless aircraft at the limits of their airframe and powerplant performance envelopes - and risk their damage/destruction - to get data for a computer game?

 

No. Core performance and aerodynamic data is where possible gleaned from historical documentation; wind tunnel test data, where available, climb and speed graphs and other quantitive data is used.

 

More esoteric qualities and handling nuances are derived from consultation with a wide variety of historic anecdotal evidence in combination with consultation with pilots, both veteran and contemporary where available. Erich Brunotte, a veteran Jagdwaffe pilot with experience of flying both the 109 and 190 was consulted for tuning of the FM.

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1. What makes you an authority on the handling characteristics of a Bf 109K-4? Are you a real world pilot with much experience of handling 1940's era piston powered fighter aircraft? If so, have you flown a real world late model 109?

 

2. There are plenty of great DCS Bf 109K-4 drivers out there and I've had the privilege of fighting against them. They seem to fly the plane very adequately and since they operate from cold ramp start on the same multiplayer servers I do, one assumes they have mastered the takeoff and landing portions of flight.

 

3. You are aware that the Fighter Collection, based in the UK, owners and operators of vintage WW2 aircraft are publishers of DCS and that Nick Grey, their CEO and a widely experienced operator of these vintage aircraft, works in close co-operation with Yo-yo, the lead FM developer for DCS?

 

4. There are no Bf 109K-4s currently in airworthy condition; there are however some late model Daimler-Benz equipped restored 109s airworthy. However...

 

How much do you think having real world examples is useful in developing an FM? Do you think that flight sim developers borrow rare and exceedingly expensive vintage aircraft and fill them with magical black boxes to get data? Do you think the owners of these aircraft will allow them to operate these near priceless aircraft at the limits of their airframe and powerplant performance envelopes - and risk their damage/destruction - to get data for a computer game?

 

No. Core performance and aerodynamic data is where possible gleaned from historical documentation; wind tunnel test data, where available, climb and speed graphs and other quantitive data is used.

 

More esoteric qualities and handling nuances are derived from consultation with a wide variety of historic anecdotal evidence in combination with consultation with pilots, both veteran and contemporary where available. Erich Brunotte, a veteran Jagdwaffe pilot with experience of flying both the 109 and 190 was consulted for tuning of the FM.

 

Agree, i think all those restored planes arent cleared for high G maneuvers any more, no one will guarantee that wing will not break off in 8 G turn :)

I think restored p-51 are flying the closest to their limits, and they performing full power t/o still, but i highly doubt that any restored bf109 was near his max boost :)


Edited by grafspee

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  • ED Team

 

plus, i cant find any video of real flight K-4 , What ED did make FM? RC plane? LOL

 

Not sure what you are used to in FM creation, but general FM creation isn't done from videos of the real thing.

 

We don't use RC aircraft but do use paper airplanes from time to time.

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  • 1 month later...

S!

 

Tried landing per the instructions written for Finnish Bf109G-2/6 pilots. Worked fine except the trim needed to be considerably less than in the manual or the nose would try to skyrocket up. Instruction in short were: Slow to 300km/h and lower landing gear, lock tail wheel, open radiators(in cold weather later), drop flaps to 40deg(full down), counter nose down with trim 3 nose up or as desired. Keep speed at 200-210km/h during glide slope, 180km/h at threshold. Pull throttle back and gently flare. Plane sits on 3 points at 145-155km/h. During roll out keep direction with rudder, use brakes when speed drops. Keep stick pulled back. Plane has no tendency to nose over even on hard braking.

 

So works in game too except had to keep trim at around 1-1.5. Otherwise had to really push stick forward to keep glideslope. With less trim the plane went very nicely and lands easily on 3 points.

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The trim amount changes depending on indicated speed but also your weight, so depending on how much fuel or load you have trim would be different. There's no "recipe" for that.

 

 

 

S!

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