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RealSimulator F-16SG-HOM & F/A-18 Joysticks


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Another company will enter in the joystick market. Realsimulator will launch it first complete joysticks this year. They made some mods and joystick bases in the past for Thrustmaster and Suncom HOTAS.

 

First of all, they will release a F-16 joystick in left and right hand. After that, they will release a F/A-18 grip, also in right and left hand versions.

 

RealSimulator is well known for his mods for the Suncom F-15 Hotas and HOTAS Cougar (Game port to USB adapter). R1 and R2 mods for the HOTAS Cougar and more recently they developed the R3 base for use with Thrustmaster grips. FSSB R3 base is now compatible with T-50 Mongoos grip. They usually release two versions, one for the professional market and another for the consumer market (tagged as HOME).

 

The price for the R3 Lightning base is not cheap, 450 € + shipping, but the quality is impressive.

 

In its 30th anniversary, finally they will release a complete joystick using his well known R3 Lightning base, they designed a F-16 grip, available in Left or right hand versions.

 

S1r6FFM.jpg

 

They will release a Professional version too. Not available for us.

 

bKcNnKU.jpg

 

At this moment they are working in the software. Next week they will talk with beta testers in order to get feedback from them and improve the software.

 

FDw7n22.jpg

 

Preorder will open soon (two or three weeks? ) :D

The price is not known at this moment, but probably will be higher than 450€ + shipping (As I wrote earlier, that is the cost of the R3 Lightning base).

 

Also, they are working in a F/A-18 grip, which I suppose that it will be released after F-16SG-HOM.

 

Product page of the FSSB R3 Lightning base

 

As usual, more info and updates, in his website.

 

It looks very interesting.


Edited by Sajarov
link added

:megalol:

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Their sticks do look nice. But I'm not sold on the FSSB base. I understand the F16s do have it in real life, but I just don't know if I can get used to it. And the base can't be used with extensions since you're introducing a moment arm that can break the base (too much torque).

 

 

For me, the the extension would be a deal breaker with my current setup. Something to consider.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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I find the FSSB base to be more accurate than any physically-moving joystick because there's no stiction, no slack or deadzone, returns to dead center every time, and can be adjusted through software instead of having to swap out springs and cams. It also has additional features that are unique to it, such as:

 

1. A speaker and a light to let you know when you're getting close and at the max deflection.

 

2. Ability to set different sensitivity levels for pitch and roll, independent of each other.

 

3. Ability to change the 'axis balance' so that, for example, it takes more force to roll left than to roll right (they call it the NASA sensibility).

 

4. Ability to change the angle of the output so that you can rotate the stick while keeping the axis perpendicular to the front of the aircraft. This is similar to how the VKB and Virpil sticks can be physically rotated, but this is done through software instead and can be adjusted on the fly.

 

5. Ability to change the sensitivity on the fly, which is very useful when you need to lower it for AA refueling, for example.

 

6. 4 different profiles that can be swapped between on the fly.

 

Some of these things can be done through the sim by changing curves, but not all sims support this and it's better to have them as part of the joystick's firmware rather than having to configure it for every sim.

 

As for getting used to it, it only took me a few minutes, and I felt like I had much better control right out of the box. Things that I couldn't do before, like AA refueling and close formation flying, I can do now without much effort. As a real F16 pilot said, "the side-stick controller takes about as much time to get used to as it takes to read this sentence".

 

That said, I did find that I would inadvertently bob the aircraft around a bit when pressing buttons in level flight because the force I use to press the button is picked up by the stick. I've since adapted to this and compensated for it. The base is also more suitable for jets that will smooth out the movements than it is for aircraft that won't (like WWII aircraft). It almost feels too responsive for aircraft with direct control surface linkage, because every small amount of force you exert on the stick translates to a movement in the aircraft.

 

An extension wouldn't make sense for a force controller unless it's for aesthetic reasons because the stick doesn't move. It only flexes a bit, and feels similar to how a piece of metal flexes when you try to bend it.

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3. Ability to change the 'axis balance' so that, for example, it takes more force to roll left than to roll right (they call it the NASA sensibility).

 

 

I always wondered about this since your arm is way stronger moving towards the center of your body than it is moving away. Makes sense that it would have this available.

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i think we need more throttles not sticks.

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I always wondered about this since your arm is way stronger moving towards the center of your body than it is moving away. Makes sense that it would have this available.

 

Yes, this is not such a big of a deal for displacement joysticks since even the strongest springs and cams are light enough that you won't have trouble hitting the limits, but with a force joystick you can feel a pretty big difference between the force required to roll left and to roll right. I found myself vastly favoring going left due to how much easier it is, so I changed my roll sensitivity to 150%, which makes rolling to the right 50% more sensitive than to the left and feels more even.

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I find the FSSB base to be more accurate than any physically-moving joystick because there's no stiction, no slack or deadzone, returns to dead center every time, and can be adjusted through software instead of having to swap out springs and cams. It also has additional features that are unique to it, such as:

 

1. A speaker and a light to let you know when you're getting close and at the max deflection.

 

2. Ability to set different sensitivity levels for pitch and roll, independent of each other.

 

3. Ability to change the 'axis balance' so that, for example, it takes more force to roll left than to roll right (they call it the NASA sensibility).

 

4. Ability to change the angle of the output so that you can rotate the stick while keeping the axis perpendicular to the front of the aircraft. This is similar to how the VKB and Virpil sticks can be physically rotated, but this is done through software instead and can be adjusted on the fly.

 

5. Ability to change the sensitivity on the fly, which is very useful when you need to lower it for AA refueling, for example.

 

6. 4 different profiles that can be swapped between on the fly.

 

Some of these things can be done through the sim by changing curves, but not all sims support this and it's better to have them as part of the joystick's firmware rather than having to configure it for every sim.

 

As for getting used to it, it only took me a few minutes, and I felt like I had much better control right out of the box. Things that I couldn't do before, like AA refueling and close formation flying, I can do now without much effort. As a real F16 pilot said, "the side-stick controller takes about as much time to get used to as it takes to read this sentence".

 

That said, I did find that I would inadvertently bob the aircraft around a bit when pressing buttons in level flight because the force I use to press the button is picked up by the stick. I've since adapted to this and compensated for it. The base is also more suitable for jets that will smooth out the movements than it is for aircraft that won't (like WWII aircraft). It almost feels too responsive for aircraft with direct control surface linkage, because every small amount of force you exert on the stick translates to a movement in the aircraft.

 

An extension wouldn't make sense for a force controller unless it's for aesthetic reasons because the stick doesn't move. It only flexes a bit, and feels similar to how a piece of metal flexes when you try to bend it.

 

 

Try setting the dead zone to 1 or 2 and curve around 5, I find that it minimizes the movement when you press buttons and keeps the aircraft very steady.

 

I find it hard to go back to gimbal sticks after owning FSSB. It’s almost like playing FPS games with Xbox controller vs mouse. It is that precise and you can also switch presets on the fly while playing which is analogous to changing mouse dpi.

 

 

 

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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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I'm with Ranma13 on this for sure... I have an X65F which is also a force sensing stick.

 

 

It took me a few minutes to get used to (and only a few minutes) for general flying and then a bit of a paradigm shift when AARing. Easier than before for sure. The tech is more sensitive, but also more precise. This holds true for both gentle input and for more aggressive movement.

 

 

My software doesn't see to have quite as many features as what was listed for this base though. I can independently set required force, force curves, 4 force profiles swap-able on the fly etc... but that NASA sensibility thing would be nice.

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Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis)

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i think we need more throttles not sticks.

 

I was just thinking the same thing. Although I may purchase this new stick from them for Falcon BMS, a new Cougar throttle would be awesome. Not a big fan of the Warthog throttle. Only left for throttle that is quality is the cougar and the X65F. What else?

GPU: RTX 4090 - 3,000 MHz core / 12,000 MHz VRAM. 

CPU: 7950X3d - 5.2 GHz X3d, 5.8 GHz secondary / MB: ASUS Crosshair X670E Gene / RAM: G.Skill 48GB 6400 MHz

SSD: Intel Optane P5800X - 800GB

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CONTROLS: VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base / VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime Grip / VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle / TM Pendular Rudders

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It appears Virpil is finally getting their production spun up so I'm likely to go that way as much for lack of throttle options than anything else. Probably go with the stick as well since they claim they will have multiple software modes for the works down the road and it will be backwards compatible. That would mitigate the lack of controls on the stick making it more viable. I'd actually prefer something else otherwise but no one really makes what I would want; something the likes of the X56 but of high quality and without the ergo blunders.

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I looked into this company a bit earlier this year. I typically buy all new sim hotas stuff anyway, so long at it's under $1000 per unit - I can't recall what the prices where on this stuff, but IIRC it was still under this, so I'll probably be in.

 

 

I do have one of the Saitek X65 hotas in my collection, and the force sensing system works better than I thought it would. More than well enough to play, especially less competitive single player experience stuff, although I did find that in multi/PVP competitive stuff like Aces high that I fly, it was a bit less than ideal. Perhaps this company will have more spun up tech than Saitek did with their brief and, IMO failed attempt, and bringing force sensing hotas to the masses. I'll stay tuned, for sure.

Systems

 

 

Virpil T50x2,T50CM2x2,Warbrd x2, VFX/Delta/CM2/Alpha/Tm Hornet sticks, VKB GF3, Tm Warthog(many), Modded Cougar, VKB Pedals/MFG Pedals/Slaw Viper RX+109Cam Pedals/Virpil T50+T50CM Throttle/CH Fightersticks/CH Throttles/CH peds, Index x1, Reverb x1

 

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How does force sensing tech fall down in comp play?

Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x

Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis)

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The F-16SG-HOM is Warthog compatible right?

It use the FSSB R3 Lightning base, so yes. In fact, for Warthog users, they can buy the R3 Lightning base, which is available since 2015.

 

Now they are developing the F-16 grip.

:megalol:

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The F-16SG-HOM is Warthog compatible right?

 

This question can be viewed in two ways. If you're asking whether the RealSimulator F16 grip can be put onto a base like the TM Warthog base or the Virpil base, then the answer is most likely no. You will be able to physically mount it, but the RealSimulator grip has a ton more buttons:

 

F16-botones.jpg

 

Every control on the joystick is a 5-way switch. Unless the base can handle it or there's a fallback mode in the joystick, the base won't be able to communicate with the joystick properly.

 

If you're asking whether the RealSimulator FSSB base is compatible with the Warthog stick, then the answer is yes.

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This question can be viewed in two ways. If you're asking whether the RealSimulator F16 grip can be put onto a base like the TM Warthog base or the Virpil base, then the answer is most likely no. You will be able to physically mount it, but the RealSimulator grip has a ton more buttons:

 

 

 

F16-botones.jpg

 

 

 

Every control on the joystick is a 5-way switch. Unless the base can handle it or there's a fallback mode in the joystick, the base won't be able to communicate with the joystick properly.

 

 

 

If you're asking whether the RealSimulator FSSB base is compatible with the Warthog stick, then the answer is yes.

 

 

 

IIRC the new grip works like a standard cougar/warthog grip with those each bases. Full support(like additional 5-way hats) is only for R3 base.

 

It may be changed when it actually comes out, so be sure to check the compatiblity.

 

 

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I haven't seen any info regarding backwards compatibility with the Warthog/Virpil base, but I'd be surprised if it did support those bases. At the price point that this stick will sell at (likely >$300), there's really no point in buying one to use with the Warthog/Virpil base, since you can't take advantage of the extra buttons or the extra features that it has, and the MongoosT-50 and TM stick are at much lower price points for the same functionality. Maybe it's something that's super easy to implement and will be added in as a "sure why not" feature, but unless someone is looking for an eventual upgrade path to the FSSB R3 base, I don't see an advantage of purchasing this stick over the other 2.


Edited by Ranma13
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