How to use JTAC with Ka-50

Hi

Before ED encoded sounds I took a copy of the folder and I see that Ka-50 contains recordings (in English) for JTAC (such as "ready to copy remarks" or "available for tasking").

Based on that I assumed that I can put JTAC as I would do normally for A-10C or F/A-18C in my mission and have it working with Ka-50 (assigned to the same blue side).

I, however, do not see the JTAC radio menu, which makes me believe I am doing it wrong.

So, should it work natively in DCS Black Shark 2?

If so, how to?

Before you say that, I am not interested in mods, thank you.

As I understand it, the only way to get JTAC is with the very good and completely unintrusive JTAC mod by TurboHog.

Forgive me for asking, but you are setting your Ka50 to a NATO country, right? 'Cos the rest don't have JTAC and the menu won't work...

This

As I understand it, the only way to get JTAC is with the very good and completely unintrusive JTAC mod by TurboHog.

 

Forgive me for asking, but you are setting your Ka50 to a NATO country, right? 'Cos the rest don't have JTAC and the menu won't work...

Thanks!

Yeah, I really don't want to use mods, I thought it was possible as ED recorded all needed phrases.

Yes both JTAC and Ka-50 are in the USA country.

@Gierasimov you dont need any mod, only a Moose script wich is very easy to work with.

@Gierasimov you dont need any mod, only a Moose script wich is very easy to work with.

Can you or someone else explain, how to use it pls?

Has anyone figured out what laser code the Ka-50 uses yet? Been searching around but can't find it.

Would be nice to have JTAC lase targets for the Shark instead of just getting coordinates.

Perfect!

@Gierasimov you dont need any mod, only a Moose script wich is very easy to work with.

Yeah, thanks.

I will wait for ED to figure out if they can and want to add Russian FAC.

I know it is not natively supported nows so will just keep it simple and leave that idea alone.

I will just design that mission differently. Thanks again.

Has anyone figured out what laser code the Ka-50 uses yet? Been searching around but can't find it.

 

Would be nice to have JTAC lase targets for the Shark instead of just getting coordinates.

From reading the manual and extensive experimentation, there doesn't appear to be a laser spot tracker (as per most TGP equipped DCS aircraft or the A10C/SU25T) as part of the Shkval on the KA50, so it doesn't actually have the ability to detect a lase.

You can buddy lase KH25Ls for other KA50s, but the cue you see on the HUD is the Missile' s seeker picking up the laser, not the

KA50's sensors.

You can buddy lase KH25Ls for other KA50s, but the cue you see on the HUD is the Missile' s seeker picking up the laser, not the

KA50's sensors.

Well that means Kh25L's should be able to pick up a JTAC laser as long as it's set to the right code.

Well that means Kh25L's should be able to pick up a JTAC laser as long as it's set to the right code.

And that's the point. You can't set the KA-50's lasercode to something like "1688" You have a 3 position knob, but I can't find anything to edit the code behind the 3 positions.

Well that means Kh25L's should be able to pick up a JTAC laser as long as it's set to the right code.

The assumption here is that DCS has modelled all of its laser designation methods to be interoperable, which, while good for gameplay in hypothetical situations, isn't realistic.

The four digit laser codes we see in DCS are NATO (or at least US) standard, not a global standard. Russian laser designators and related proceedures evolved separately so the code system used by western aircraft and JTACs isn't compatible with Russian systems.

Now, the A10A and SU25T in DCS can both track code 1113 on their spot trackers, but as they are not full fidelity aircraft, this appears to be an abstraction for gameplay purposes (noting that an actual A10A could track any NATO standard code while the 25T shouldn't be able to track any). You could try 1113 for the KH25, but I've had no luck in the past with it.

And that's the point. You can't set the KA-50's lasercode to something like "1688" You have a 3 position knob, but I can't find anything to edit the code behind the 3 positions.

Agreed, you can't change the Ka-50 laser code but you can change the JTAC laser code in certain missions.

If only we could find the code that the Ka-50 uses... or the Kh25L... or Hellfires. (I recently posted a mod that allows the Ka-50 to carry Hellfires)

The Hellfires must be able to acquire a wide range of laser codes but I don't know how that works. By putting them on a Ka-50, does that set and restrict them to seeing only the three Ka-50 laser codes? I'm guessing that's what happens. Would be nice if you could just switch off the Ka-50 laser and have the Hellfires find and track a JTAC laser on another code. Just speculating here...

The assumption here is that DCS has modelled all of its laser designation methods to be interoperable, which, while good for gameplay in hypothetical situations, isn't realistic.

It's also not realistic for Ka-50's to be flying under any western coalition, but they often do in multiplayer due to the KA-50 being one of only two attack helicopters available in the sim.

It's unrealistic that any of us DCS fans would ever get to fly a real Ka-50. It's unrealistic to be shot down in a Ka-50, end up a smoking hole in the ground, then go for a cigarette and a cup of coffee before doing it all again. There's a whole bunch of unrealistic situations in DCS and always will be. It's a sim.

I know this is a study sim and tries to be as realistic as possible but compromises need to be made to allow choice in creating mission scenarios. If we had Apaches for the western coalition we wouldn't need to ask about JTAC's lasing for Ka-50's. If we're allowed to have Ka-50's flying for Team USA then we should be able to use them in full cooperation with JTAC assets. All we need is a laser code for that.

That's just my 2 cents worth. Would be nice but... not the end of the world or the sim without it. We've got the Kiowa and the Hind coming soon and the Apache later, so maybe just need to be patient.

In history, the code 1113 was used to guide the KH-25ML. However, it being a russian missile, it is highly unlikely the PRF for the code would be compatible between NATO and WARSAW/Russian equipment.

The whoel thread is taking a direction the OP never asked. I don't know how the mission editor needs to be set-up to allow the KA50 to use a JTAC.

I know that our wing has integrated the KA50 with its human JTACs just fine. If used in the correct way (usually type 3), it can accomplish amazing things.

Realisticly if Russia were working with nato they could set the Kh-25/Ka-50/Su-25 to use NATO's laser codes. The reason you cant do it ingame is because there is no option in the rearm screen to set the laser code. That's why the F-14 uses a hackey setup with the kneeboard to allow you to select the laser code that your GBUs are set to. Hopefully BS3 will add this feature to allow Ka-50s to designate targets, at the very least for Su-25s.

(noting that an actual A10A could track any NATO standard code while the 25T shouldn't be able to track any).

The Su-25T should have a own search mode, like the one in the KA-50 that sweeps the Shkval around and have a laser spot tracking capability there. The Shkval-M system had a more improved FLIR for automatic target detection and target tracking.

But the Kh-25 laser seekers are autonomous so that you do not need to get the lock from the Shkval, as the missile itself just says "I see the laser" and you are good to go. This is similar to how APKWS/AGR-20 works, except those are purely Lock-On-After-Launch and why they don't require any modifications as you just fire them as any normal rocket and they find laser spot by themselves after they deploy guidance section (seekers + wings) that will start steering toward laser spot. So all you need to know is that at what direction (+/- 20 degrees FOV on seeker) and how far the spot is (3-11 km range depending platform speed and altitude). You could even launch a rocket from a ground vehicle just pointing rockets upward and let them drop down ballistic manner, and have a laser designation happen at good timing manner.

If you work with the ground troops, they will tell you where to look and have a Kh-25 looking that direction.