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Used Joysticks worth it to you or not?


Cpt Cuckoo

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Well...I would I like to find out what the general consensus is of USED Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 joysticks is ...because....I have had one of them that I bought used and also a USED Thrustmaster AfterBurner, after thinking they were a step-up from my previous USED Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

 

My Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, which was ALSO USED, was really hard to land any aircraft with. It felt too sensitive and unpredictable. It was ridiculous!

 

Then I found the USED Thrustmaster AfterBurner. I liked the split controls and two hand approach very much. However, the joystick was almost as bad and as unpredictable as the Extreme 3D Pro.

 

Ok....then I found the Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 to replace that with. But the joystick part is also unpredictable no matter how I try to adjust the firmness or set it up in DCS. I was newer and a newer model but it is also USED.

 

IN the meantime I had found another USED "Logitech Extreme 3D Pro" for $5. I thought it might come in handy for someone sometime. I didn't pull it out and try it till tonight though.

 

Well........I hooked it up and opened up a Mission I have made with the SuperCarrier and a F-18 Hornet.

 

It was a little awkward for me because I am used to using a left hand thruster and buttons as well. ....BUT.....it was NOT unpredictable and over sensitive like the first Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and I was able to much, much more easily control and land the F-18 on the deck. Now, this was also used but it was working much better than my more expensive and, also used, models....and better that the first Logitech Ex 3D Pro.

 

I thought hmmm......what if I could find a thrust & console for my left hand that would work with this Logitech Ex 3D Pro?

 

So....I plugged in the Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 into a spare usb on my PC ......and what do you know....it worked with my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Both worked at the same time with a little mapping.

 

I put the unneeded Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 joystick part of the set up out of the way and used the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick along with the left hand console/Thrust belonging to the Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 which I hadn't put aside.

 

Immediately I began flying steady and on the Ball all the way to the SuperCarrier Deck making pretty landings.

 

I had the revelation that I had spent these last few years struggling with crappy controllers never knowing they were crappy and thinking that I was a crap pilot, till tonight.

 

So, my question is - Is it an established fact that after a few years use these or almost all joysticks will become unusable and it is the luck of the draw if you ever buy one that lasts more than 5 years or so? And is this a reason why one should just forget about buying used joysticks in general?

 

On that note: I feel like I have already been burned by Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7 joystick. I'd hate to buy a new one only to find out it was no better than the used one...or that it will also become crappy after a couple of years. Does anyone have any suggestions.

 

At the moment, though unorthodox, the hybrid chimera I have jury-rigged, seems to work nice but eventually I'll want a proper rig.


Edited by Cpt Cuckoo
Because I am a crappy writer?

 

 

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...

So, my question is - Is it an established fact that after a few years use these or almost all joysticks will become unusable ...

 

I think it depends on the basic quality of the joystick and how has it been treated and mantained by their previous owners.

 

My Thrustmaster Cougar dates from 2003, has been repaired three times over these 17 years, upgraded once (with new hall-type pots) and is still going strong. I'm certain that it still has a lot of service life left.

 

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The cheaper it is to begin with, the shorter its useful unmodified lifetime will be. Warthogs can last over a decade, same with cougars. Partially due to initial build, partially due to ease of repair.

 

All my current controls save my warthog throttle and Pedals are second hand. But they were all expensive as new, and they all needed a little love to get squared away.

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I think it depends on the basic quality of the joystick and how has it been treated and mantained by their previous owners.

 

 

All my current controls save my warthog throttle and Pedals are second hand. But they were all expensive as new, and they all needed a little love to get squared away.

 

 

When I am talking secong hand I'm talking second hand out of the "Goodwill" or St Vincent De Paul" stores. Or in the case of the Ace Combat 7 from a pawn shop.

 

 

 

The strange thing is that the second Logitech Extreme 3D was the cheapest but it is better that all the others.

 

 

I like the hybrid setup I am using for now except for the extra joystick not used that is still attached. I can't cut the wire that attaches it because it is the main power power supply wire. (The main power from the PC's USB goes through the Joystick first and then into the separate throttle and rudder hand console)


Edited by Cpt Cuckoo

 

 

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For simulations, don't try using "arcade" hardware. Meaning, I think all the sticks you mentioned are not really up to the job of simulating anything like real flying. The "Logitech Extreme 3D Pro", might have MAYBE been up to the job when new... maybe. But from what I'm hearing, that stick will do fine for spaceship games and arcade stuff, but for simulations of flying, it's not really that accurate in input precision.

 

I'm guessing money's tight, I get that. Warthog is probably just way too far from your budget, I'm guessing.

 

My suggestion: look on ebay, or other online used selling (in Canada I have great luck with Kijiji which is owned by ebay), and do a search for products from "CH Products", like the Flightstick Pro USB, or the CH Fighterstick, CH Combatstick and so on. They also make a HOTAS throttle and a civilian style throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals (and even two grades of civilian flight yokes too).

 

Why? Because they basically mostly last a lifetime, they are tough and long lasting. The pots and buttons, the hat switches, they all last a long time. They tend to be sold for half the price of brand new, which itself isn't the most expensive.

 

This route will be more expensive than $5 sticks at a pawn shop. But save up, and then pounce on it. It'll give you a good experience, and should last a long time for you too.

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I'm guessing money's tight, I get that. Warthog is probably just way too far from your budget, I'm guessing..

 

 

Even if I could afford Warthog I wouldn't be able to use one due to restrictions on how and where I use DCS. CH product reviews say they are built well. But I'll probably never go higher than the T.16000. Because I don't sit at a desk.

 

 

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Ok so I think you maybe should aim for a T.16000

 

Why? Well, if the size of the controlers is an issue, that stick includes a twisting grip, for the rudder/yaw functions. It does have a lot of buttons on the base, it does have a throttle slider. Lots have been sold. The precision is high on this one, it's good for flying the most finiky of fixed wing aircraft. The spring is maybe a bit stiff for helicopters, but there's a simple (time consuming because you have to take it appart) mod you can do with tiny zip ties if you want the spring pressure reduced.

 

It may not last forever, some people have experienced them failing after two years of very hard use, while other people are still trucking along with them. It may be that using some kind of plastic-compatible lubricant on the gimbal may be all that's needed to make them last long time?

 

There are two versions: the later "orange" version, and the earlier "green" version. In practical terms, AFAIK the ONLY difference between the two is that the green one has some very bright green LED lights that stay on all the time and become very annoying. You should aim to buy whatever version you can get at the cheapest price: even the green one, as the LED's are very easily disabled, just pop the bottom cover off, and snip one wire, reasemble!

 

I personally found a green T.16000 at walmart for about 1/3 the normal price of an orange unit, think they marked it down because it probably sat on the shelf for maybe 10 years!

 

The CH Products are nice even when used, I have several myself. The switches are very good, especially the hat switches. But none of the common CH sticks have a twist grip for the rudder/yaw function. There was, for a very short time, a CH stick that did, but it seemed to only be ont eh market for a year and got pulled two decades ago. CH have a light spring and thus are also nicer for helicopter flying if that's your thing, or want to give it a go, but generally helicopters need a rudder/yaw control for the tail rotor, and are not served well with tiny throttle sliders because of the precision needed for the collective.

 

I think CH sticks are ever slightly smaller than the T.16000, not by much, but maybe an inch in each direction? The CH Fighterstick though, has four hatswitches though, similar layout to the real F-16, so that gives you more functionality in the modern jets like the Viper, Hornet, JF-17 and so on. But no twisty grip!

 

I hope this helps!


Edited by Rick50
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Thrustmaster Ace Combat 7

Thrustmaster AfterBurner

Logitech Extreme 3D Pro

 

Your problem is not due being USED hardware, but more due be low cost "entry level" products, using low cost/quality potentiometer and electronics.

 

So "you get what you pay". :D

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Your problem is not due being USED hardware, but more due be low cost "entry level" products, using low cost/quality potentiometer and electronics.

 

So "you get what you pay". :D

 

 

yes...but here's the thing about that: It is the lowest quality used joystick that is the best. The Logitech Extreme 3D Pro....the second of the two I bought used. It beat the newer but used Thrustmaster Ace combatmaster 7!

 

(The first Extreme 3D Pro was shite too.")

 

 

 

It seems random!

 

 

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Ok so I think you maybe should aim for a T.16000

 

Why? Well, if the size of the controlers is an issue, that stick includes a twisting grip, for the rudder/yaw functions. It does have a lot of buttons on the base, it does have a throttle slider. Lots have been sold. The precision is high on this one, it's good for flying the most finiky of fixed wing aircraft. The spring is maybe a bit stiff for helicopters, but there's a simple (time consuming because you have to take it appart) mod you can do with tiny zip ties if you want the spring pressure reduced.

 

It may not last forever, some people have experienced them failing after two years of very hard use, while other people are still trucking along with them. It may be that using some kind of plastic-compatible lubricant on the gimbal may be all that's needed to make them last long time?

 

There are two versions: the later "orange" version, and the earlier "green" version. In practical terms, AFAIK the ONLY difference between the two is that the green one has some very bright green LED lights that stay on all the time and become very annoying. You should aim to buy whatever version you can get at the cheapest price: even the green one, as the LED's are very easily disabled, just pop the bottom cover off, and snip one wire, reasemble!

 

I personally found a green T.16000 at walmart for about 1/3 the normal price of an orange unit, think they marked it down because it probably sat on the shelf for maybe 10 years!

 

The CH Products are nice even when used, I have several myself. The switches are very good, especially the hat switches. But none of the common CH sticks have a twist grip for the rudder/yaw function. There was, for a very short time, a CH stick that did, but it seemed to only be ont eh market for a year and got pulled two decades ago. CH have a light spring and thus are also nicer for helicopter flying if that's your thing, or want to give it a go, but generally helicopters need a rudder/yaw control for the tail rotor, and are not served well with tiny throttle sliders because of the precision needed for the collective.

 

I think CH sticks are ever slightly smaller than the T.16000, not by much, but maybe an inch in each direction? The CH Fighterstick though, has four hatswitches though, similar layout to the real F-16, so that gives you more functionality in the modern jets like the Viper, Hornet, JF-17 and so on. But no twisty grip!

 

I hope this helps!

yeah thanks....that helps! Also, I use DCS while seated on a sofa couch with a laptop on an fan cooled "Logitech N700 laptop desk" on my lap and my legs extended. So, I have the stick on the right side of me and the thruster with rudder on the left. It's a pretty dam comfortable position and I can't imagine being stuck at a desk.

 

So I need something with a broad surface base and a low profile for using on the softer surface of the couch.

 

So far the T.16000 after reading a ton of reviews it looks like it fits the bill. A Warthog is definitely out of the question because I want the rudders controled by my left hand.

 

Does anyone know if the T.16000m is accurate enough for mid-air refueling?

 

 

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yeah thanks....that helps! Also, I use DCS while seated on a sofa couch with a laptop on an fan cooled "Logitech N700 laptop desk" on my lap and my legs extended. So, I have the stick on the right side of me and the thruster with rudder on the left. It's a pretty dam comfortable position and I can't imagine being stuck at a desk.

 

So I need something with a broad surface base and a low profile for using on the softer surface of the couch.

 

So far the T.16000 after reading a ton of reviews it looks like it fits the bill. A Warthog is definitely out of the question because I want the rudders controled by my left hand.

 

Does anyone know if the T.16000m is accurate enough for mid-air refueling?

 

Should be as precise as the WH, but the one I tried felt a little more "sticky" than my WH. Also the Throttle felt a lot more difficult to move precisely, might just be lack of habit for me, but that was my experience. Electronics wise, should be precise enough.

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I've bought a number of used items. All higher end and been very happy. I agree, the problem isn't that its used, its that you get what you pay for. There is no comparing a TM to a Logitech. (and yes, I have had both)

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  • 3 weeks later...

in this video, he reviews version 3 of the T.16000m, called the TCA Sidestick Airbus. But mechanically, electronically all three are exactly the same. Only the ergonomics and appearance are the real differences.

 

at 7:40 he shows how precise the stick gives data to the simulation, as you watch the hashtag shaped icon (or a doubled cross?) move about the PFD:

 

Version 1 has green lights and silver highlights

Version 2 is the most common, is black with orange highlights

version 3 is meant to resemble an Airbus airliner control, has a black stick with blue/grey base

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Ok so then there is two options:

 

A) get this one, has lots of buttons, three hatswitches, a micro-stick for radar or pod slewing, paddles and a rotary knob. Sorta resembles the layout of a F-18 Hornet (except doesn't give separate engine axis)

the throttle that's been sold for several years now: TWCS Throttle (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System) features 5 (+3) axes, 14 action buttons + one 8-way Point of View hat switch.

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/twcs-throttle

 

 

 

B) while seemingly a good throttle for airliners, this one not that suited to complex fighters like DCS features:

The brand new Airbus airliner throttle as part of the Thrustmaster Civilian Aviation (?) line

https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-TCA-Quadrant-Airbus-pc/dp/B087DHMT8B

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If you can afford it go for it, itts a decent entry level joystick, most of the time these things will not have got the use to wear them out so you ahve little to lose.

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Ok so then there is two options:

 

A) get this one, has lots of buttons, three hatswitches, a micro-stick for radar or pod slewing, paddles and a rotary knob. Sorta resembles the layout of a F-18 Hornet (except doesn't give separate engine axis)

the throttle that's been sold for several years now: TWCS Throttle (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System) features 5 (+3) axes, 14 action buttons + one 8-way Point of View hat switch.

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/twcs-throttle

 

 

Yeah that's the one I've been looking at.

 

 

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TCA x T.16000M/FCS

 

One more button (17 x 16) in throttle slider near 0%, OK not much useful unless for Airbus reverse.

One of 4 buttons in grip is now over trigger, position that make easy use then as "shift" for the other 2 buttons in grip, achieving more two "virtual buttons".

 

TCA throttle x TWCS

Less buttons, axes (in TCA basic module).

Contactless sensor in the two throttles X potentimeter in TWCS.

Turning levers X slider rails (subject to stiction) of T.16000M/FCS

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