Request for verification

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=269366

This recently closed and concluded bug report has been closed under the claim that:

'The knob was changed for a switch on the last upgrade after 2011.

Only the AV-8B Plus were affected. The NA remained the same'

This is in contradiction with:

> pg 23-20 sec 23.7.1.5, pg 23-22 sec 23.7.1.6

Where it states explicitly that Day Attack and TAV-8B aircraft have a knob positioned on the HSI, and Radar and Night attack birds have a switch.

> pg VII-23-34 sec 23.4.1.5 / sec 23.4.1.6

Where it states the same as the 2008 NATOPS.

Bignewy,

RAZBAM SME alleges that the change was made in 2011.

Both 2001 and 2008 NATOPS indicate switches in both II+ and NA aircraft, and other SMEs pre-2011 have confirmed the presence of switches in Harriers.

Can we get clarification that this isn't simply another unverifiable excuse to avoid a change? A source document perhaps? Proof of existence of a SME at all?

Thanks.

In the same vein as NineLine, Vstolmech has noted that the harrier fleet around the world is very diverse in upgrades. So I guess that in certain squadrons there were/are no Night Attack Harriers with the switch and others with a mix. I'd say this is not a battle worth fighting.

Total ignorance on this, so excuse me if this is a dumb statement, but is it possible this upgrade or change was rolled out slowly, and one SME could have seen it at a different time than another?

That is plausible and I'm not saying it's not a possibility.

My underlying point, however, is that Razbam has been making broad, generalized assertions such as "the CAS page isn't used anymore" and "the switch upgrade happened in 2011 and only on Plus birds", which are clearly untrue at face value (but very well could be, for certain units or bases).

I'd be willing to give them benefit of the doubt if they made those claims with the same nuance you are making Nineline, but declarative statements that X does or does not happen, Y is or is not used, and Z happened on a certain date aren't passing the sniff test.

I'm not trying to die on the Course Switch hill. I'm trying to illustrate a point that Razbam isn't being entirely truthful and they could claim their SME said literally anything to get out of implementing any system as described in the manuals we have.

In this case, it's a knob that began getting changed in the 90s according to publications (presence in 2001 documents with no change bar, indicating it was actually published in an even earlier document).

What other cases does this apply to?

I agree with Chicken. I wont die on this hill, as I simply don't fly harrier enough to care either way.

Its clear that faith has been lost in Razbam, and from past experiences we can tell that responding to sustained evidence with 'nuh uh, our pilot says otherwise' isnt always conducive with a healthy user-dev relationship.

The reason I am pushing this as hard as I am, is because there is another bug report (or two) filed for the Knob, and I would hope to avoiding working that problem if the knob will eventually just be replaced with a switch anyway.

Thanks Chicken, I agree with you, this goes back to communication, again it's an underlying thing in all these reports.

 

Swift, I hope I didn't put you off, I am really not up on the Harrier, and only trying to grasp all aspects, so if I frustrated you or upset you further, I am sorry.

 

If you guys feel its important I can dig deeper into it. At the very least it will be a good example of where things need to be explained better, I mean we even have that issue at times with our stuff, that a correct as-is isn't explained well enough.

Nineline, I think it's worth pushing for a reason: a switch is easier to use than a knob for us simmers. We can bind that to two buttons on the stick for example.

I have the Hornet set up in that way and it makes it a breeze to set the course and make small corrections without having to use the mouse.

That said there are certianly much higher-priority bugs and missing features.

I actually prefer the knob to the bugs switch, but then with the bug you can click it once then type the value into ufc. But I guess thats personal preference, i just un cage my mouse wheel and I can quickly spin to what i want.

There's already a "reported bug report" to assign key bindings to the knob. Be it "CW and CCW" or "Increase and Decrease", "Knob or Switch" I don't care.

The topic is cosmetic. Weather it's switch or knob. Not how we inter act with it. Please what ever you people decide enable keyboard support so mouse interaction is an option not required, as it is now.