DCS: Me 262 Discussion (Development on hold currently)

It's really a shame that this project is taking so long...

 

Now that we know where the project stands (still), I kind of gave my hopes up for this piece of art.

Yes, this is indeed not the news I wanted to read...

They didn´t even start yet.

We are still collecting the necessary data to correctly simulate the Me.262 and until we have enough granular detail we will not start development

Fox

fairweather friends itf

262 is not really the most usefull plane to see in DCS WW2 now. It has a really limited use as it is an intereptor (and ground attack plane). I would buy it first day, but in today game, it's not really the plane I look for.

As Me 262 is an interceptor (and ground attack) plane, it is really limited to use it right now. I prefer to see DM, AI, weather, ... before having it in game. And I prefer to have more classic fighter and bomber flyable before having this plane as it have really particular caracteristics.

It is a superb plane but it is too different from other plane now to be really interresting. I think we need more context to make a correct use of it. And I'm happy ED don't rush it right now. I would be really happy to wait 2 or 3 more years if this time is spent to devellop a complete WW2 environment (AI, DM, more flyable planes to match the period, ground objects, ...).

Hope to see it soon. But I prefer to see other things first :p

(But yes I start saving money for it :) )

As Me 262 is an interceptor (and ground attack) plane, it is really limited to use it right now.

I don't get this comment.

We have B-17's and P-54's, as well as ground targets, so what more do you want?

I prefer to see DM, AI, weather, ...

262 is not really the most usefull plane to see in DCS WW2 now. It has a really limited use as it is an intereptor (and ground attack plane). I would buy it first day, but in today game, it's not really the plane I look for.

 

As Me 262 is an interceptor (and ground attack) plane, it is really limited to use it right now. I prefer to see DM, AI, weather, ... before having it in game. And I prefer to have more classic fighter and bomber flyable before having this plane as it have really particular caracteristics.

 

It is a superb plane but it is too different from other plane now to be really interresting. I think we need more context to make a correct use of it. And I'm happy ED don't rush it right now. I would be really happy to wait 2 or 3 more years if this time is spent to devellop a complete WW2 environment (AI, DM, more flyable planes to match the period, ground objects, ...).

 

Hope to see it soon. But I prefer to see other things first :p

(But yes I start saving money for it :) )

I think this is going to be the longest announced aircraft in DCS.

The Kickstarter project launched 05.September 2013, that's more than 6years now.

After the RRG desaster, mid 2014 ED took over the "plan" to develop this bird (among K4,Spitfire, P-47). I'm happy for that, don't get me wrong.

People are waiting longer for this DCS bird than you are active on these forums.

So "rush" in conjunction with this development does not fit here. As the development didn't even start yet, it's far away from rushed.

Initially is was scheduled behind the P-47. But the P-47 is also already late. 3 years.

It's like the real Me262. Early announced but then late to the theater of action.

There is no discussion about DM, AI weather etc. improvements. We all want them.

And you think there is no use for the 262 in the current DCS environment? Sorry you are wrong. Zius describes it perfectly. Of course more stuff is better.

Fox

I prefer to see DM, AI, weather, ... before having it in game.

S!

I think this is going to be the longest announced aircraft in DCS.

 

The Kickstarter project launched 05.September 2013, that's more than 6years now.

 

After the RRG desaster, mid 2014 ED took over the "plan" to develop this bird (among K4,Spitfire, P-47). I'm happy for that, don't get me wrong.

 

People are waiting longer for this DCS bird than you are active on these forums.

So "rush" in conjunction with this development does not fit here. As the development didn't even start yet, it's far away from rushed.

 

Initially is was scheduled behind the P-47. But the P-47 is also already late. 3 years.

 

It's like the real Me262. Early announced but then late to the theater of action.

 

 

There is no discussion about DM, AI weather etc. improvements. We all want them.

And you think there is no use for the 262 in the current DCS environment? Sorry you are wrong. Zius describes it perfectly. Of course more stuff is better.

 

Fox

I'm not english so not the best way to explain. But by "rushing it" I mean there are other more classic planes to make before this one. I know it is one of the planes we had in kickstarter list. But for ww2, it's not the plane we need today to develop the gameplay. I don't mean it's a useless plane for the game. But the use we can make of it is too limited by what we already have. I can't imagine how much people will complain of it if we have them in server like Burning Skies or in missions (It's not a dogfighter except in "games").

All the WW2 is poor now. Need to develop classic plane and basic stuff before making plane such as Me 262 or Me 163 or Gloster meteor, ... Would be awesome to fly it but before it, I would prefer to see oher things.

If you read the whole Wag's interview indeed he says they are different teams, so parallel development. All of it is coming together, it's not one thing or the other.

 

 

S!

Yes parallel dev. So Hope to see lot of things coming "at once". Not to have to wait "10 years" between every important new feature. But I think only one team work on WW2 module at ED. For me the Me 262 is not the priority. But it's not a plane to forget for too long :p

Yes parallel dev. So Hope to see lot of things coming "at once". Not to have to wait "10 years" between every important new feature. But I think only one team work on WW2 module at ED. For me the Me 262 is not the priority. But it's not a plane to forget for too long :p

If we follow what's said in the interview, though not "promises" of course, P-47 Q1 2020, Mosquito sometime in [late]* 2020, so Me262 maybe sometime around Q1-2 2021, which is a lot to wait for kids but a blink to grown adults :D .

*(I guess)

S!

The Me262 was a "promised" aircraft that a lot of people who paid money thought they were going to get. Like the NTTR terrain, it needs to be delivered despite the delays involved simply to make good on what people paid for rather being pushed back further to support other people's requests.

The current plane set focuses on some of the best fighters througout history as well as an equivalent opposition fighter from WW2 to the 1990s. The Me262 very much belongs in the plane set and to follow tradition, the Meteor should be added to provide an equivalent opponent (though I wouldn't mind a P-80, instead).

If DCS is going to prioritize whatever the forum crowd currently wants rather than meet its prior promises, I vote for the P-40B in AVG colors or maybe an F4F vs A6M2 dueling pair or an F6F vs A6M5 dueling pair. Any classic matchup from the Pacific would make me happy.

But make no mistake, if/when the Me262 goes up for preorder, I am buying it.

The Me262 was a "promised" aircraft that a lot of people who paid money thought they were going to get.

Paid money for - but to a company that no longer exists, not to E.D...

Paid money for - but to a company that no longer exists, not to E.D...

But ED agreed that it had created a horrible situation by sanctioning the effort and took on the mantle of keeping the promises that had been made. Otherwise, I would not have received the Normandy terrain/assets pack and Fw190 and Bf109 for no further cash outlay.

The P-47 and Me262 are the only elements from the original promises not yet delivered. Why would they deliver everything else, but skip the Me262, which has already been "in progress"?

& to date, they have been doing that, and they haven't said they won't continue to.

They have said they're having trouble getting detailed enough data to work with - that's a good reason.

Also - personally - I wouldn't expect them to put the highest possible priority developing modules that a significant part of the full price early adopters market will get for free...

I don't think modelling the Me262 should be such a difficult task, esp. since we've got flying examples around today. The only caveat is the engines, but IIRC even an original Jumo 004 is being restored to full working order but with the heat resistant metals the German wanted to use but didn't have back then. Definitely the most interesting of the WW2 projects still going for ED, albeit I must admit the Mosquito has be intrigued, even if I know I don't see its use in DCS - atleast the 262 can fight other fighters, the Mosquito not so much.

They may be flying, but do they have original engines / weight distribution, and is someone prepared to let E.D. put one in a wind tunnel / fly one hard to get some performance data.

If not - it makes the model & textures easy, but not much more...

Weta, you tend to be pessimistic. Why don't you try to be a little bit more optimistic.

Do you really think that the W/B with the non Jumo engines is out if the limits? Don't think so.

Flying to the limits? Why is that necessary? And asking for support costs only a little bit time and a few emails, to check if they can/want to help. And even the original Jumo engines are rebuild at a heritage foundation in the States.

ED could get in contact with https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de (Well I hope they are already) I can offer my help for translation and help in communication (english-german)

Fox

Luckily, real flying examples are only useful to ask their pilots for hints and tips. Flight data for the model is usually gotten from original documents and NACA old tests. Otherwise we wouldn't have any WWII module, not a single one.

S!

Flying examples is almost certainly a complete non-factor. It'd teach you nothing of any particular value. Nobody who owns an exotic aircraft is going to let you fly it to dangerous limits, and any useful tech data will be in text form.

On the other hand, when there was the interview with Nick Grey, this was the response.

Q. 1. How important is it to have access to real aircraft when working together with ED on developing new WWII modules?¬ – xvii-Dietrich

 

A. Very. Sadly if you haven’t flown them, guess what….

Ref: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207133

I'd say pretty safely they're not arranging flights for the coders in miscellaneous warbirds of the past and present (the cost and impractability for one), and even if they were they wouldn't be edge of envelope ''test flights''. So, they're interviewing people who flew them in the past. There aren't any two-seat versions of some of these, yet they're coding them anyway, etc.

There will come a time when there are no ''former pilots'' to interview, too. On that note, wouldn't it be interesting if DCS one day became a reference point for future coders due to interaction with former pilots long gone?

I mean, you can get some nuance of behavior by being in it, but your time with say, a F-15 or MiG-29 even if you could get your hands on one is going to be extremely limited. So, anyway you look at it, it's a luxury opportunity. They're not racking up dozens/hundreds of hours in an A-10 they rented, you know?

ED could get in contact with https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de (Well I hope they are already) I can offer my help for translation and help in communication (english-german)

Fox

AFAIK Groove from ED already is in contact with all possible sources (especially the German ones ;)). If you want to help with translation PM him.

They may be flying, but do they have original engines / weight distribution, and is someone prepared to let E.D. put one in a wind tunnel / fly one hard to get some performance data.

 

If not - it makes the model & textures easy, but not much more...

Weight distribution is the exact same as the original thanks to a very smart weighted nacelle casing for the CJ610 engines. The the difference is in the thrust available ofcourse, but they can easily simulate Jumo 004B performance by simply throttling only to 8.8 kN thrust.

Flying examples is almost certainly a complete non-factor. It'd teach you nothing of any particular value. Nobody who owns an exotic aircraft is going to let you fly it to dangerous limits, and any useful tech data will be in text form.

I would argue that actually flying the aircraft is invaluable when re-creating the look and feel of actually sitting in the cockpit.