What module next?

So I was wondering what I should get next, I have the Su27 and the F15c. I prefer canon combat and stunts over missile jousting and wanted something fun to fly. I love how the Su27 performs and Can't stand the easiness of the F15c. From what I've read I'm highly leaning towards the M 2000C but how does it fly?

If you want a challenge get the MiG-21.

The Mirage is a great module but it is more of an F-15 than a Flanker.

Poop, yeah I've heard it's more difficult. But I'm more concerned with how it handles in flight. I hate the feel of the F15c because it feels very artificial. I'd like to fly something that can maneuver similarly to the Su27.

If you hate F-15 for feeling artificial in flight, you'll be offended by the Mirage to say the least, as a full FBW plane it tends to feel "on rails".

If you are looking into air to air dogfights with challenging flight characteristics, I would suggest looking into F-5E and MiG-21Bis. In fact, older aircraft are even more hands-on in this regard, F-86, MiG-15, or any of the 5 WW II fighters.

That being said, if you want to remain competitive online against pilots of similar skill level flying newer aircraft, I guess in that case Mirage 2000C would be the only option for you.

Finally, if you are willing to give ground attack a go you may look at the AJS 37 Viggen too, but it doesn't have an internal cannon, and hates high angle of attack flying.

I'd say go and give a look at the MiG-21. With a sale going on at Steam right now, maybe get both the MiG-21 and the F-5. From what you say, these two seem to me are the ones you'd enjoy. Actually even the F-5 may feel a bit too much on the easy side if you dislike F-15C, so I'd say look into the MiG-21 first and foremost.

As for maneuvering similar to Su-27, I don't think there currently is anything that fly similar to it. Maybe once it arrives, F/A-18C will resemble some of its high alpha provess, but it will also be a full FBW aircraft so maybe it'll feel less hands-on.

Gasp, the hornet is coming to DCS?! Looks like I'm waiting. That said thanks man, as for multiplayer I'm not to worried. I prefer the Su27 for combat any other plane I get would be for flying around mountains and stunts. And the on rails isn't really what bugs me about the F15, it's more of the way it handles in turns. Feels like a flying brick.

When will the Hornet release is a touchy question though, you may have to wait at least many months, likely close to a year.

Life is short, I'd say get the MiG and enjoy another ride until the Hornet comes :D.

Gasp, the hornet is coming to DCS?! Looks like I'm waiting. That said thanks man, as for multiplayer I'm not to worried. I prefer the Su27 for combat any other plane I get would be for flying around mountains and stunts. And the on rails isn't really what bugs me about the F15, it's more of the way it handles in turns. Feels like a flying brick.

Well that's the first time I've heard the F15 described as a flying brick. I think it handles very well for a big jet.

Anyway I don't know what you are expecting, but the Su27 has a very different system to the FBW that is found on the Mirage (and the Hornet, by the way). Both of these planes will feel very different to the Su27, and actually quite close to each other in how they fly. They won't have the same performance, not by a long shot, but because of the nature of digital FBW systems, their "feel" will be similar and quite artificial.

So I was wondering what I should get next, I have the Su27 and the F15c. I prefer canon combat and stunts over missile jousting and wanted something fun to fly. I love how the Su27 performs and Can't stand the easiness of the F15c. From what I've read I'm highly leaning towards the M 2000C but how does it fly?

It would also be worth considering the F-86 and MiG-15. Both have prehistoric performance by modern standards, but they can both be incredibly entertaining to fly and with the exception of the quaint but nearly useless gen. 1 IR missiles on the F-86, both are also strictly gunfighters.

Agree that if you hate the F-15, the Mirage is not going to make you a happy guy.

I'm going to jump on the F-5 bandwagon here. That and the MiG-21 both, depending on your preference for Eastern or Western airframes, are a joy to fly.

Agree that if you hate the F-15, the Mirage is not going to make you a happy guy.

 

I'm going to jump on the F-5 bandwagon here. That and the MiG-21 both, depending on your preference for Eastern or Western airframes, are a joy to fly.

actually id say its not quite the case. because whilst Mirage is a 4th generation fighter its not the sort of AS fighter the F15 is. Its a smaller lighter weight fighter with ground attack capability that has a shorter ranged radar with not as good lookdown/ shootdown capabiltiy, but is More nimble and better for old fashioned turn n burn dog fighting compared to the F15 which shines in long range BVR combat, and instead relies more on energy and vertical maneuvering in a wvr merge. That being said given the F15's size its honestly not a brick for how it can manuver.

apart from the Mirage id say the F/A18C Hornet will worth consideration a buy. Similarity its a smaller fighter, But it will also allowe the greatest versatility ( much more than the M2K) in an aircraft to date since the F/A18C will be the most modern modern multirole fighter for some time . IT will be capable of A2A combat and various A2G functions in addition to carrier ops. Not surprising that its one of the most anticipated modules by the DCS community.

If you don't like artificial get a WW2 plane and do all the flying yourself with no aids.

If you don't like artificial get a WW2 plane and do all the flying yourself with no aids.

I don't mind artificial to an extent, I think grace is more of the word. I'ma give the saber/mig15 a try, I cant stand how the mig 21 looks xD. Thanks everyone for all the posts, pretty much sums up what I was wondering. And hornets gonna be a must get for me then.

I don't mind artificial to an extent, I think grace is more of the word. I'ma give the saber/mig15 a try, I cant stand how the mig 21 looks xD. Thanks everyone for all the posts, pretty much sums up what I was wondering. And hornets gonna be a must get for me then.

Yeah, the 86 and 15 are probably your best bet. Right now there isn't anything in DCS that flies quite like an Su-27. The M2000 is great in that you still must pay attention to your alpha quite a lot (it bleeds energy like there is no tomorrow) but as all FBW planes it feels more like an F-16 then anything else. The F-18 is still too far out and even that i fear, might be too docile for you, but grace it will most certainly have. Once the F-14 comes around that might also suit you. It flies similar to the Flanker, but it is far more.....how should i say..... temperamental. Temperamental as in trying to kill you if you don't know what you are doing.

Oh man f14 would be amazing.

Once the F-14 comes around that might also suit you. It flies similar to the Flanker, but it is far more.....how should i say..... temperamental. Temperamental as in trying to kill you if you don't know what you are doing.

More temperamental than the Su-27? Bloody hell, that's going to be a challenge to fly then! :shocking:

More temperamental than the Su-27? Bloody hell, that's going to be a challenge to fly then! :shocking:

Tom Cruise didn't have a problem with it. :)

Oh man f14 would be amazing.

More temperamental than the Su-27? Bloody hell, that's going to be a challenge to fly then! :shocking:

Yeah, i can't wait for it as well. Even routine landings can be hand full in that. Actually.....scratch that, there are probably no routine landings on a carrier with an F-14A. And when you start pulling high alpha......yeah, i think we'll have out hands full :joystick:

Isn't that lovely?! :thumbup:

P.S. I found the Flanker pretty docile actually (as long as you don't actively try and brake it). I mean, nowhere near as docile as an F-15, in fact they are worlds apart. But it doesn't seam to have any vices and it turns like mad. However maybe my senses are a bit skewered, as i come from a prop community and many of those WW2 birds are really touchy when you don't give them the respect they demand.

Tom Cruise didn't have a problem with it. :)

Tom Cruise could not even fly Nichol Kidman much less an F14

Tom Cruise could not even fly Nichol Kidman much less an F14

He flew her more than we did.

Yeah, i can't wait for it as well. Even routine landings can be hand full in that. Actually.....scratch that, there are probably no routine landings on a carrier with an F-14A. And when you start pulling high alpha......yeah, i think we'll have out hands full :joystick:

Isn't that lovely?! :thumbup:

 

P.S. I found the Flanker pretty docile actually (as long as you don't actively try and brake it). I mean, nowhere near as docile as an F-15, in fact they are worlds apart. But it doesn't seam to have any vices and it turns like mad. However maybe my senses are a bit skewered, as i come from a prop community and many of those WW2 birds are really touchy when you don't give them the respect they demand.

Agree, looking forwards to playing with the Tomcat. I guess most modern aircraft are pretty tame compared to the high performance prop planes of WW2.

I used to hate the way the F-15 flew as well.

Getting to know the control system and maneuvering more aggressively totally changed my view on the Eagle. Results may vary.

As others have said, the Mirage and Hornet have digital FBW, making them even more predictable than the F-15. Although there is one key difference: the F-15 just has augmented hydromechanical controls, so it responds much more snappily than the fully digital systems. FBW aircraft have a very nice "damped" feel to them. Personally, I love it.

And the on rails isn't really what bugs me about the F15, it's more of the way it handles in turns. Feels like a flying brick.

Let me give a little lesson in Energy management:

When you're maneuvering, your engines constantly trickle energy into your aircraft. You convert that energy into turn performance by pulling the stick. The harder you pull, the more energy you use. When you yank the stick, you dump all of that energy so quickly that the engines have no hope of keeping up. You end up mushing around at 120 knots without really turning... this is the most common mistake I see new pilots make.

For a normal dogfight loadout (missiles, near full internal fuel), corner speed is about 350 knots. As you get low on fuel, it goes down to 320 knots or so.

Practice doing sustained turns at full afterburner, pulling as necessary to maintain corner speed. Too slow? Relax the pull. Too fast? Pull harder. Avoid trying to turn at very high speed. The faster you go, the harder it is to slow down without extending the airbrake and idling the engines.

Once you get that mastered, you can really start having some fun. At 400 kts, pull 9G until you're down to 350, then hold it there. Then experiment with performing maneuvers in the vertical, pulling less as you go over the top and pulling more as you recover from the dive to keep your speed under control.

Keep in mind that a heavier loaded aircraft will bleed MUCH more energy in turns. Flying at high altitude has a similar effect, so start off by practicing at 5k-10k ft and without any external fuel tanks.

I hope this helps!

its extremely easy to overpull in the f-15, its got tremendous control surface authority. doing a panic yank when you realize you got jumped is the quickest and surest way to acquire all the properties of a flying coffin.

Telling someone to sustain 350KCAS at higher GW when that person thinks the Eagle is already a brick...

Telling someone to sustain 350KCAS at higher GW when that person thinks the Eagle is already a brick...

 

It's a hell of a lot better than attempting to turn with the stick in your gut and no energy.