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has the trim changed with DCS 2.1 update 1


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I just updated to today's update 1 for DCS 2.1 and took the Bf-109 for a spin. Whereas I needed to always trim her fully nose-heavy to achieve level cruise flight, now I can leave the trim more or less neutral. Has this changed?

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I just was going to ask this, but since I already flew I can say yeah they changed it. The slider doesnt seem to function, but there are trim controls in the flight control menu now that lets you trim elevators up and down, and rudders left and right.

 

Edit - I misread your post the first time, but I thnk its still relevant.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Me neither. No change noticed here.

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she always climbs with 2 degrees of nose down trim for me. running 156

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I do not see this in 2.1. When the trim wheel is in the neutral positon (0) the the nose goes down. I have to trim slightly tail-heavy to get level flight without stick input. I control the trim wheel with an axis (slider of the TM WH throttle). The only criticism I have is that the upper 30% of the axis control have no effect. That's a poor implementation of the axis control for the trim wheel and it's the same if I bind the left throttle lever to the trim wheel.

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^ That's an interesting observation, because for me, just like a couple of guys above, even full nose down trim cannot make the plane fly level at cruise settings (1.05-1.1 ATA) - pushing the stick is alway necessary. Both in 1.5.6 and 2.1.

 

I control the trim via keyboard, though. Does assigning it to slider/rotary change the physics of the plane? In theory it shouldn't, but maybe we've discovered some glitch?

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^ That's an interesting observation, because for me, just like a couple of guys above, even full nose down trim cannot make the plane fly level at cruise settings (1.05-1.1 ATA) - pushing the stick is alway necessary. Both in 1.5.6 and 2.1.

 

I control the trim via keyboard, though. Does assigning it to slider/rotary change the physics of the plane? In theory it shouldn't, but maybe we've discovered some glitch?

 

I dont think it makes a difference where you assign it, but I wonder if its more of inconstancies in controllers, because I have always been able to get a level cruise trim, in fact I have to pull it back some to get level.

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I dont think it makes a difference where you assign it, but I wonder if its more of inconstancies in controllers, because I have always been able to get a level cruise trim, in fact I have to pull it back some to get level.

 

Unless the controller has a hardware error (e.g. controller outputs 10% back-stick when it's actually centered and thus should be at 0%), then it shouldn't matter what sort of controller it is; 0% deflection should be 0% output on all controllers. So, if User A experiences pitch-up, hands-off, under the same in-sim conditions (trim, speed, power, mass, etc.) where User B experiences pitch-down, then either one of them has a very faulty controller, or else there must be a bug in the sim, causing a discrepancy between the two experiences.

 

Can anyone experiencing behavior contrary to that shown in Sithspawn's video post a mirroring video displaying the difference?

 

Addendum: it just occurred to me that CH Products joysticks have hardware trim—which, by the way, you should normally never use, as trying to use it as a substitute for the virtual trimwheel will quickly wear out the plastic & loosen the potentiometers in their mountings, causing unnecessary extra sloppiness. The hardware trim is meant for rare maintenance corrections of minor hardware deviations caused by aging. If any of you are using these sticks and misusing the hardware trim, then it can also erroneously affect your results in-sim (effectively producing a "double simulation," except that the secondary "layer" doesn't account for virtual stick-force et al.).


Edited by Echo38
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Unless the controller has a hardware error (e.g. controller outputs 10% back-stick when it's actually centered and thus should be at 0%), then it shouldn't matter what sort of controller it is; 0% deflection should be 0% output on all controllers.

 

Absolutely!

 

Can anyone experiencing behavior contrary to that shown in Sithspawn's video post a mirroring video displaying the difference?

 

I cannot... but that's because Sith's vid above is contrary to what he wrote himself two posts up :D and actually confirms what I wrote on the previous page - one cannot trim the 109 for level flight at cruise settings with full nose down trim - always a bit of push is required. Maybe I just notice it more, because I use 30 cm extension for my THW.

 

Not that I'm bothered by that like a certain memorable, 109-obsessed, long-time-banned user of this forum ;). Not at all, actually.

 

To balance the plane with neutral pitch stick, one has to cut the throttle to slow down to ~390-400 indicated. Yes, I've just tested it on both free flight missions as well. Haven't checked, however, how the plane behaves with empty MW50 tank and reduced fuel load (CG moves forward). Anyone more interested in the bird - feel free to test it and post results.

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I cannot... but that's because Sith's vid above is contrary to what he wrote himself two posts up :D and actually confirms what I wrote on the previous page - one cannot trim the 109 for level flight at cruise settings with full nose down trim - always a bit of push is required.

 

I wasn't trying to trim for level flight, the video shows that if you trim full nose down, the aircraft will nose down, people are saying with full nose down, the nose still raises. I was also trying a new axis for my trim wheel which I don't like as I can't do fine adjustments, but thats another story :)

 

 

If you like I can do another one and trim for level flight, but it should be obvious as I can set the trim to nose up or nose down, you just have to hit the in between to get there.

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Sure, I believe you, but I was rather talking about typical cruise settings (1.05 ATA for econo, 1.25 for cruise) which yield airspeeds of above 450 indicated, and this is in the speed range where some stick push will always be necessary to keep the nose from rising even with trim full down. At least with these free flight mission loadouts. I suppose that's what aforementioned people meant as well.

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Sure, I believe you, but I was rather talking about typical cruise settings (1.05 ATA for econo, 1.25 for cruise) which yield airspeeds of above 450 indicated, and this is in the speed range where some stick push will always be necessary to keep the nose from rising even with trim full down. At least with these free flight mission loadouts. I suppose that's what aforementioned people meant as well.

 

I still see nose down in this case, higher speeds lessen the nose down effect, but its still there with full nose down trim.

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Ha! That's 'cause You were still pushing a tiny bit, as clearly seen by the "diamond" marker vs the horizontal line :D. Next time center the marker on the line and see what happens above ~400 IAS.

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This is the steady state of fully nose-down trimmed airplane with full fuel load and MW-50.

 

The required engine power setting is shown.

 

By the way, take a look at the ball - the video above has this ball decentered, so the plane encounters additonal pitch moments due to sideslip.

 

To have pure zero inputs from roll stick channel and pedals a good idea would be to switch them off and use only keyboard.

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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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20% of fuel and empty MW-50 bottle

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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I just wanted to clear something up. Sparflug is not the same as Reiseflug. Reiseflug translated freely means something like (combat) cruise and Sparflug means maximum range flight. For the K-4 1.15 ata/ 2400 rpm is Sparflug, not Reiseflug.

 

Example from a G-14 Entwicklungsblatt:

 

Sparflug

450 km TAS at 4 km

 

Reiseflug

480 kph TAS at 0 km

525 kph TAS at 4 km

610 kph TAS at 7.1 km


Edited by rel4y

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I just wanted to clear something up. Sparflug is not the same as Reiseflug. Reiseflug translated freely means something like (combat) cruise and Sparflug means maximum range flight. For the K-4 1.15 ata/ 2400 rpm is Sparflug, not Reiseflug.

 

Hi relay,

 

i think you are with the numbers not right, here the numbers from the K-4 manual and also the same numbers from the DCS K-4 pdf:

 

Notleistung + Mw50 ( emergancy power ):

ATA 1.75 +- 0.01 at 2800 rpm +- 50 rpm, for 10 minutes

 

Steig/Kampfleistung ( Combat/Climb power ):

ATA 1.35 +- 0.01 at 2600rpm +- 50rpm, for 30 minutes

 

Reiseflug ( cruse power ):

ATA 1.25 +- 0.01 at 2400 rpm +- 65rpm, no time limit

 

Sparflug ( max range flight power ):

ATA 1.05. +- 0.01 at 2000 rpm +- 80 rpm, no time limit.

 

My question is, way in DCS the plane is trimmed for Sparflug (max rang flight ) and not as it was usualy in the German Luftwaffe to trimm the planes with the trimmslats on the ground for Reiseflug ( cruse power ) as with Reiseflug they reach there Reiseflug speed from around 450 Km/H.

 

regards

 

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RPM may be off, some documents list it at 2000 rpm others at 2400 rpm.

 

Sparleistung though is definitely 1.15 ata for the DB605DB, it is taken from an engine card. Kurfursts page is down atm, but there you can usually find the corresponding Motoren-Karte for the 1.8 ata setting. These are more accurate than whatever is written in the K-4 manuals, be it LW original or DCS.

 

In Yo-Yos picture he is flying at 1.15 ata which is Sparleistung => V(Ropt) and not Reiseflug V(Reise), thats what I wanted to clarify on. As you correctly said the aircraft were not trimmed for Sparleistung but Reiseflug = cruise.

 

For the K-4 Prototype (1750 PS) Reiseflug V(Reise) velocity is:

477 kph TAS at 0 km

645 kph TAS at 8.4 km


Edited by rel4y

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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