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Gazelle Flight Dynamics... Again.


Focha

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I will add that I do find the Gazelle fun to fly after taking some time to start getting used to it. That is not to say it doesn't need to be fixed if it is as incorrect as people are saying.

 

Agree officially it's fun to "fly" same as is the Huey.

 

YMMV :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Ah yes Pedro, end of story it is!!! The elusive AA kill in the Gazelle. I was so mad at myself watching my SL Maverick knock down fighters left and right every other day while I spent 20 something hours hunting elusive prey. Finally got my first kill in, then it got easier from there but still not a sure thing every flight.

 

Now if you are on the 104th server and someone is running GCI in the observer slot, it makes it alot easier to know when fighters are tracking you from far so you can keep pushing or up close trying to hunt you down.

 

Its amazing to see some fighters just slow down and turn in full AB so stupidly trying to get a visual on you while you pedal turn, put the double greens on him, get tone and squeeze off a Mistral. I think the best thing of all is the SimMod message on the 104th server that says "Humiliation Kill" whenever a Gazelle splashes a fighter.

 

Damn it, going back to the Gazelle right now!!

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I Agree to, the gazelle is lots of fun! The FM maybe a little out? Don't know, Ive only flown an R44 before. I do think it's very close from the

Ive seen and probably just needs a little polishing up in a few areas, there definitely not game stoppers, if you fly the chopper within IRL limits. I have full faith PC will polish up the Gazelle, you can tell it was a labor of love for them.

 

The way I see FM's, you can get them very close, then it's starts getting real hard and time consuming to move that little bit more forward. I can see why it takes so long for these hi tech sims to come out of beta.

 

I think PC have done a great job here so far for their first chopper and module in DCS and I wish Poly Chop the best going forward and hope they get everything sorted out soon. Looking forward to the BO-105, day one buy for me.

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END OF STORY wink.gif

Thank you!

 

I enjoyed this immensely!

 

Good shooting!

"Yeah, and though I work in the valley of Death, I will fear no Evil. For where there is one, there is always three. I preparest my aircraft to receive the Iron that will be delivered in the presence of my enemies. Thy ALCM and JDAM they comfort me. Power was given unto the aircrew to make peace upon the world by way of the sword. And when the call went out, Behold the "Sword of Stealth". And his name was Death. And Hell followed him. For the day of wrath has come and no mercy shall be given."

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I Agree to, the gazelle is lots of fun! The FM maybe a little out? Don't know, Ive only flown an R44 before. I do think it's very close from the
Ive seen and probably just needs a little polishing up in a few areas, there definitely not game stoppers, if you fly the chopper within IRL limits. I have full faith PC will polish up the Gazelle, you can tell it was a labor of love for them.

 

The way I see FM's, you can get them very close, then it's starts getting real hard and time consuming to move that little bit more forward. I can see why it takes so long for these hi tech sims to come out of beta.

 

I think PC have done a great job here so far for their first chopper and module in DCS and I wish Poly Chop the best going forward and hope they get everything sorted out soon. Looking forward to the BO-105, day one buy for me.

 

I thought about this little universe that is DCS, I'm actually very happy with the modules I have and it is a credit to all the developers involved.

 

Thanks Guys. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Thank you!

 

I enjoyed this immensely!

 

Good shooting!

 

Check all of his series ;) He basically shows his amazing skills of controlling that helicopter to the limits.

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I'm not seeing that at all, the Gazelle seems very responsive to input. all I am running is saturation at 90% for cyclic on Gazelle otherwise it a little to responsive for me, no other mods to cyclic input. (saturation for the Huey is at 100%)

 

All other inputs also seem instant for me so maybe there is some other factor affecting your Gazelle module.

 

Hmm, I really don't know why we see such a difference. Did you fly the original FM, from the first release?

 

I think a few other people share my impression...but who knows.

 

ZimmerDylan, I think we got in a non-argument over semantics. It's true that a good bit of subjectivity is factoring in when people get such different impressions.

 

In "theory", the FM is supposed to approximate an objective representation of how the thing flies, though. Not that it would ever "feel" exactly the same, of course, due to lack of acceleration forces, different control geometry, etc.

 

But, as the Huey shows us (IMO) a good approximation is pretty great.

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Scarecrow84

But, as the Huey shows us (IMO) a good approximation is pretty great.

 

I have to agree on this point. I will take the Huey over the Gazelle for fun flying every time. Many of the points made here about the Gazelle's handling are true and I find them to be a little annoying at times. But I always figure that everything gets worked out in it's time with DCS modules. I know that the Gazelle will eventually be as much a pleasure to fly as the Huey.

Does anyone remember the days when people were complaining daily about the terrible flight model in the Huey? And how no one thought that it would ever get straightened out because the module had been out for such and such a time period and it should be fixed by now? Now the Huey gets a lot of praise for it's flight model by most people who fly it. And even though there are still bugs with it (as in all DCS modules), It's a favorite for a lot of people.

I think the Gazelle will eventually go the same course. In the meantime, it is fun to fly and play with the weapons systems.

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I think the Gazelle will eventually go the same course. In the meantime, it is fun to fly and play with the weapons systems.

 

:thumbup:

Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Gainward Phantom GS RTX 3080 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds | DCS PD 1.0 / Steam VR SS 170%

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Hmm, I really don't know why we see such a difference. Did you fly the original FM, from the first release?

 

I think a few other people share my impression...but who knows.

 

ZimmerDylan, I think we got in a non-argument over semantics. It's true that a good bit of subjectivity is factoring in when people get such different impressions.

 

In "theory", the FM is supposed to approximate an objective representation of how the thing flies, though. Not that it would ever "feel" exactly the same, of course, due to lack of acceleration forces, different control geometry, etc.

 

But, as the Huey shows us (IMO) a good approximation is pretty great.

 

Not sure I was being a tad of a smart a#se when I got the Gazelle this time last year and to be honest I didn't really like the Gazelle I was in luv with the Huey. The Gazelle was this twitchy almost un controllable enigma of a contraption. Then one day I could almost fly it then latter I crashed it less often then I fell in luv with it too. :)

 

I have the Gazelle only in DCS 2.0.something but that's fine for me, been thinking of missions for the Gazelle and cat herding comes to mind it's that agile. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Scarecrow84

But, as the Huey shows us (IMO) a good approximation is pretty great.

 

I have to agree on this point. I will take the Huey over the Gazelle for fun flying every time. Many of the points made here about the Gazelle's handling are true and I find them to be a little annoying at times. But I always figure that everything gets worked out in it's time with DCS modules. I know that the Gazelle will eventually be as much a pleasure to fly as the Huey.

Does anyone remember the days when people were complaining daily about the terrible flight model in the Huey? And how no one thought that it would ever get straightened out because the module had been out for such and such a time period and it should be fixed by now? Now the Huey gets a lot of praise for it's flight model by most people who fly it. And even though there are still bugs with it (as in all DCS modules), It's a favorite for a lot of people.

I think the Gazelle will eventually go the same course. In the meantime, it is fun to fly and play with the weapons systems.

 

++1

 

I actually find both the Huey and Gazelle to be great modules. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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This might sound odd, but I'm excited to hear the almost universally loved Huey once had an unsatisfactory flight model. I'm a new member of the community and it was already great when I got here!

 

In fact was an "impossible" to fly FM. You simply couldnt hover. And took if I remember well about a year or more to start being as it is now.

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Okay there maybe something funny going on in turns, I thought about this and how I fly the Gazelle (well I mostly miss the ground so that's a start) whilst giving the Huey some love yesterday.

 

Depending on how you turn the Gazelle it doesn't always follow the turn, I mean it does in as much as doing the turn but the authority the tail has or should have doesn't seem to be there. I just tend to correct attitude going through the turn with pedal input (I learnt to fly the Huey first so it's automatic) I also think this effect isn't consistent but I'm not good enough to be sure.

 

Here is a short video, is this the effect we're talking about? at the point where the Gazelle starts to line up to the direction of travel I'm doing in excess of 100Klm/h more like 120 130 at a guess. I purposely do not correct this for a bit and I'm flying obliquely at about 45 degrees to direction of flight which after correcting attitude my IAS is 150Klm/H

 

Link here might be best to download then watch

 

Or have I totally missed something?

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I do believe that is one of the major items that has been raised @FragBum .

 

There have been arguments that it's possible the Gazelle really does behave this strangely (by helicopter standards) due to it's flight control systems but the majority of folks aren't buying it.

 

@BigNewy has said on MANY occasions that we can expect PolyChop to improve the flight model so I take that as confirmation that the devs are aware that the FM needs attention. That's good enough for me.

 

I think the rest is largely frustration with PC being incommunicado for so long due to their "internal legal issues". If the PC devs were here participating in the discussions we would feel a lot better.

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There are indeed problems with the flight model.

Personally I loved the fist 2.0 release... that was a seriously taught mo fo straight outta the box with a nasty and sudden VRS if pushed too far to the limit. The only problem at release was the super fine cyclic (which I over came with hours of practise and I came to love).

 

I think Polychops gotta stop reacting to feedback too quickly and stick to their guns until proved wrong!

 

 

Slow clean development of the model is just fine with me.

 

 

Light weight choppers were never meant to be easy, especially the old ones. there is no modern flight comparison to the Gazelle.

 

 

By the way, a superb combat machine polychops! She truly puts me right there toe to toe!


Edited by Rogue Trooper

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Okay there maybe something funny going on in turns, I thought about this and how I fly the Gazelle (well I mostly miss the ground so that's a start) whilst giving the Huey some love yesterday.

 

Depending on how you turn the Gazelle it doesn't always follow the turn, I mean it does in as much as doing the turn but the authority the tail has or should have doesn't seem to be there. I just tend to correct attitude going through the turn with pedal input (I learnt to fly the Huey first so it's automatic) I also think this effect isn't consistent but I'm not good enough to be sure.

 

Here is a short video, is this the effect we're talking about? at the point where the Gazelle starts to line up to the direction of travel I'm doing in excess of 100Klm/h more like 120 130 at a guess. I purposely do not correct this for a bit and I'm flying obliquely at about 45 degrees to direction of flight which after correcting attitude my IAS is 150Klm/H

 

Link here might be best to download then watch

 

Or have I totally missed something?

 

You don't use the pedals in a helicopter in the same way you do with a fixed wing aircraft. If you try to coordinate a turn in a helicopter with pedals you are going to put yourself in all sorts of drama.

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It's not a deal breaker for me I fly for the fun of it and mostly (as can be seen) by the seat of my pants. It's just that I'm always on the pedals I didn't really notice it.

 

 

 

@Rotorhead11 You mean like when I break the tail assembly off. :music_whistling:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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There are indeed problems with the flight model.

Personally I loved the fist 2.0 release... that was a seriously taught mo fo straight outta the box with a nasty and sudden VRS if pushed too far to the limit. The only problem at release was the super fine cyclic (which I over came with hours of practise and I came to love).

 

I think Polychops gotta stop reacting to feedback too quickly and stick to their guns until proved wrong!

 

 

Slow clean development of the model is just fine with me.

 

 

Light weight choppers were never meant to be easy, especially the old ones. there is no modern flight comparison to the Gazelle.

 

 

By the way, a superb combat machine polychops! She truly puts me right there toe to toe!

 

Nothing wrong with the flight model in my opinion. The 2.0 was broken 4 months ago.

What is it you find hard, I'll try and answer your questions?


Edited by BIGNEWY
1.3 Administrative actions against forum members are not subject to public discussion.
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Okay a bit experimentation doing the same sideways take off with the auto pilot off the Gazelle actually seems to windmill into the direction of travel. It's not a smooth transition when the nose comes around but hey it does come around.

 

Could it be the auto pilot was holding off bringing the nose around because it thinks I want to fly sideways?

 

It also seems to have a consistent well out about 4 times with AP on and with it off when I tried it.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Call me slow but you can turn the "ÄP" off, holey smoking shyt it flies great.:thumbup:

 

oops i broke one,..:lol:


Edited by FragBum
oops

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I found it takes quite a while to get into the 'groove'... and yes I used to knock off elements of the SAS and mess with axis saturations to get it to 'feel' what I thought was right.... and then after a while it all slotted into place and I realised there was no need, now I leave SAS on all the time, zero curves and no saturation on the axis... of course YMMV...

 

The birds happiest at 150 kph... spend a fair bit of time at this speed and very, very low keeping the speed in the turns whilst zipping in and out of stuff and you're soon get tuned in to the control inputs and then you'll find slower stuff is a breeze. It's not 100% but not far off...

 

SIGBLOCK.png

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I found it takes quite a while to get into the 'groove'... and yes I used to knock off elements of the SAS and mess with axis saturations to get it to 'feel' what I thought was right.... and then after a while it all slotted into place and I realised there was no need, now I leave SAS on all the time, zero curves and no saturation on the axis... of course YMMV...

 

The birds happiest at 150 kph... spend a fair bit of time at this speed and very, very low keeping the speed in the turns whilst zipping in and out of stuff and you're soon get tuned in to the control inputs and then you'll find slower stuff is a breeze. It's not 100% but not far off...

 

Yep. :thumbup: Not sure on SAS/AP but still having fun with it off. :helpsmilie:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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