How will you use the F-5E?

With the Tiger hopefully days away, I thought I would make a thread talking a bit about how the various mission builders and such will be using the new plane.

I think the F-5 is a really interesting bird, in that it was aimed at being a light and simple fighter first, and as such fits into a rather unusual role. Although the word "fighter" is used to describe the F-5, I suspect it the real aircraft has done significantly more ground attack than air to air duties in its long service life.

Even though the Tiger is being pitted against the MiG 21 as a natural match up, I must admit I think the MiG, along with all the other air to air capable aircraft in the sim (aside from CAS airfcraft) will enjoy a significant advantage over the Tiger, so I see myself putting it to work as a fast attack light strike aircraft in my missions. I've used the M2000 in similar roles with a lot of success, and the nice thing is a fast mover can jump right into the role of protecting on station dedicated CAS after dumping it's ordinance

How do you see yourself using the Tiger?

I can only see myself using the F-5E to have fun flying around, but not to combat.

Low altitude (radar ground clutter), sleek profile, camouflage paintjob ...

I will definitely be using it in an air to air role. As it will first be available only with the Black Sea map [and Nevada], I'll probably create a situation similar to Skoshi Tiger. Missions will be based around a combat test squadron sent out in limited capacity in a real war. The player role will be more of a support role, as the F-4 will be the main blue fighter.

I will definitely be using it in an air to air role. As it will first be available only with the Black Sea map [and Nevada], I'll probably create a situation similar to Skoshi Tiger. Missions will be based around a combat test squadron sent out in limited capacity in a real war. The player role will be more of a support role, as the F-4 will be the main blue fighter.

I'm actually planning several Skoshi Tiger missions for my Co-op squadrons, it's a great scenario! I have a Vietnam mod pack I put together with Starways Vietnam textures, and Vietnam skins for many aircraft including the P-51, so the F-5 will fit right in! I know the Skoshi Tigers did CAS, Strike, and limited MiG CAP, all things I see the Tiger doing well

With the Tiger hopefully days away, I thought I would make a thread talking a bit about how the various mission builders and such will be using the new plane.

 

I think the F-5 is a really interesting bird, in that it was aimed at being a light and simple fighter first, and as such fits into a rather unusual role. Although the word "fighter" is used to describe the F-5, I suspect it the real aircraft has done significantly more ground attack than air to air duties in its long service life.

 

Even though the Tiger is being pitted against the MiG 21 as a natural match up, I must admit I think the MiG, along with all the other air to air capable aircraft in the sim (aside from CAS airfcraft) will enjoy a significant advantage over the Tiger, so I see myself putting it to work as a fast attack light strike aircraft in my missions. I've used the M2000 in similar roles with a lot of success, and the nice thing is a fast mover can jump right into the role of protecting on station dedicated CAS after dumping it's ordinance

 

How do you see yourself using the Tiger?

For me i will use it in the Air-Air role on Mig-21 Vs F-5E servers and servers where the Teams have different Aircraft Setups (to make visual ID possible/Reliable)

and Air-Ground on servers where both teams operate the same aircraft types.

And also let me respond to some of your notes.

(Rant Incomming)

The F-5E is has in many ways been used like the F-16.

For Nations that can only afford 1 fighter type and have the F-5E it is used in both Air-Air and Air-Ground roles equally and it does both roles well.

(just like the F-16 is with nations who has it as their primary fighter)

While Nations with larger budgets who could afford other more expensive aircraft types still acquired the F-5E and still used it in both Fighter and bomber roles but relying on other more dedicated (and usually more expensive ) fighter aircraft to bear the brunt of air-air work

where the F-5E would to Air-Air missions when needed but mainly to air-ground duties.

In the same way the US Employed the F-16A (and Pre Aim-120 F-16Cs)

With the F-15 being the dedicated Air Superiority platform where as the F-16 did mainly Air-Ground work but was well able to air-air duties when ever needed.

Most of the more wealthy nations that had the F-5E together with other aircraft types used them together like this and had them complement each other (Examples Being Iran,South Korea,Saudi Arabia,Taiwan etc).

So while for those nations the F-5E was not the Primary air-air platform it was for many others (id say the majority of F-5E users had it as a main fighter just not the largest ones who are among those listed above)

And If the F-5E should not be called a fighter if it has leaned more towards air-ground then air-air with many of its users then the same can be said with the F-16.

The F-5E is a True Multirole and is good in either role.

But as always an aircraft that is designed to do both equally well tend to be worse then a aircraft specialized for one or the other.

But the F-5E is still more then a match with a Mig-21Bis and in general i would say it should have a slight edge when everything is put together.

Yes the Mig-21Bis is faster but that is not a massive edge in a fight.

Yes the Mig-21Bis can carry more missiles but that is countered by the F-5Es missiles generally being better as well as that the F-5Es Gun sight is much more effective and easier to use making its canon a much deadlier and effective weapon.

But the Biggest Advantage the F-5E has over the Mig-21Bis will be Situational Awareness .

The Radar of the F-5E is superior in pretty much all ways.

It has better range if only slightly, but more importantly its more advanced and less effected by ground clutter (and weather) then the radar in the Mig-21Bis is,

It also has a wider search area that gives the user much better situational awareness then the radar of the Mig-21Bis.

But most importantly atleast for me is the RWR.

The RWR on the F-5E-3 that we are getting is miles beyond that on the Mig-21Bis (and id say its even better then the RWR on the Su-27,Su-25 and Mig-29)

Its a Modern Western RWR with all the features of the A-10A RWR or the F-15C RWR.

This give the F-5E Pilot a massive advantage when it comes to situational awareness as he will be able To ID targets with the RWR and have very precise data on where the threat is in relation to him.

Where as the Mig-21s RWR can at best give you a general direction.

4vmany BVR against 4th gens.

Edit: And not AIs. :D

Long story short :

notch, notch, notch, merge, fox-2, *miss*, gunsgunsguns, rtb.

Kill people. That's how I'm using it! No but seriously probably do some surprise buttsex thing where I fly super low behind enemy lines and come up behind some juicy targets.

For me i will use it in the Air-Air role on Mig-21 Vs F-5E servers and servers where the Teams have different Aircraft Setups (to make visual ID possible/Reliable)

and Air-Ground on servers where both teams operate the same aircraft types.

 

And also let me respond to some of your notes.

(Rant Incomming)

 

The F-5E is has in many ways been used like the F-16.

 

For Nations that can only afford 1 fighter type and have the F-5E it is used in both Air-Air and Air-Ground roles equally and it does both roles well.

(just like the F-16 is with nations who has it as their primary fighter)

 

While Nations with larger budgets who could afford other more expensive aircraft types still acquired the F-5E and still used it in both Fighter and bomber roles but relying on other more dedicated (and usually more expensive ) fighter aircraft to bear the brunt of air-air work

where the F-5E would to Air-Air missions when needed but mainly to air-ground duties.

 

In the same way the US Employed the F-16A (and Pre Aim-120 F-16Cs)

 

With the F-15 being the dedicated Air Superiority platform where as the F-16 did mainly Air-Ground work but was well able to air-air duties when ever needed.

 

Most of the more wealthy nations that had the F-5E together with other aircraft types used them together like this and had them complement each other (Examples Being Iran,South Korea,Saudi Arabia,Taiwan etc).

 

So while for those nations the F-5E was not the Primary air-air platform it was for many others (id say the majority of F-5E users had it as a main fighter just not the largest ones who are among those listed above)

 

And If the F-5E should not be called a fighter if it has leaned more towards air-ground then air-air with many of its users then the same can be said with the F-16.

 

The F-5E is a True Multirole and is good in either role.

 

But as always an aircraft that is designed to do both equally well tend to be worse then a aircraft specialized for one or the other.

 

But the F-5E is still more then a match with a Mig-21Bis and in general i would say it should have a slight edge when everything is put together.

 

Yes the Mig-21Bis is faster but that is not a massive edge in a fight.

 

Yes the Mig-21Bis can carry more missiles but that is countered by the F-5Es missiles generally being better as well as that the F-5Es Gun sight is much more effective and easier to use making its canon a much deadlier and effective weapon.

 

But the Biggest Advantage the F-5E has over the Mig-21Bis will be Situational Awareness .

 

The Radar of the F-5E is superior in pretty much all ways.

It has better range if only slightly, but more importantly its more advanced and less effected by ground clutter (and weather) then the radar in the Mig-21Bis is,

It also has a wider search area that gives the user much better situational awareness then the radar of the Mig-21Bis.

 

But most importantly atleast for me is the RWR.

 

The RWR on the F-5E-3 that we are getting is miles beyond that on the Mig-21Bis (and id say its even better then the RWR on the Su-27,Su-25 and Mig-29)

 

Its a Modern Western RWR with all the features of the A-10A RWR or the F-15C RWR.

 

This give the F-5E Pilot a massive advantage when it comes to situational awareness as he will be able To ID targets with the RWR and have very precise data on where the threat is in relation to him.

 

Where as the Mig-21s RWR can at best give you a general direction.

Good post, no rant detected :)

I agree with you on all points and you do raise some good advantages of the Tiger v. the Fishbed. Can't wait to see how it plays out!

I can only see myself using the F-5E to have fun flying around, but not to combat.

This is exactly why I wished they'd stop these kind of aircraft. There are way too many other "useful" ones that are needed. While appreciated, the time and resources IMO could be better spent elsewhere.

This is exactly why I wished they'd stop these kind of aircraft. There are way too many other "useful" ones that are needed. While appreciated, the time and resources IMO could be better spent elsewhere.

While I agree at 200% for trainers, the F-5 is a pillar of vietnam, and just like some only fly WW2, some will only fly vietnam.

Also, unlike some lame trainer, the F-5 should a good challenge in dogfight, yes it lacks power, but its quite agile.

Beside, ''usefull'' is a weird statement, given this is a simulator and that in every recent conflics, mig-21s/23s where the main prey, so having a equivalent for reds will be quite good.

The Mighty 8th Virtual Jet Demonstration Team will be switching to it as our primary demo aircraft.

Ill be useing the burners to heat up my pizza pops....

Il use it for both air to air and air to ground. its capable enough against its legacy aircraft opponent such as the Mig21bis. it does have the situational awarness advantage over it. Longer range radar, better gun firing solution, and more sophisticated RWR.While not having the same kind of raw power to weight ratio, and having less IR seekers, it will however be more agile fighter.

Also Itl be nice a fighter-bomber ground pounding.

Ultimately Mattbubben explaing in more in depth and the best. in many ways The F5E is like an F-16A of the legacy 3rd generation era.

This is exactly why I wished they'd stop these kind of aircraft. There are way too many other "useful" ones that are needed. While appreciated, the time and resources IMO could be better spent elsewhere.

+1

This is exactly why I wished they'd stop these kind of aircraft. There are way too many other "useful" ones that are needed. While appreciated, the time and resources IMO could be better spent elsewhere.

F5E is pretty usefull... as to expand legacy era of jet aviation. Itl serve as a western opponent the Mig21Bis. eventually this legacy era will expand.

+1

This is exactly why I wished they'd stop these kind of aircraft. There are way too many other "useful" ones that are needed. While appreciated, the time and resources IMO could be better spent elsewhere.

In fairness, the one complete Trainer, the L-39C and ZA is very deserving of a place in DCS, and the other two set the stage very poorly and remain in a bad state sadly. That being said I think the F-5 fits the DCS roster very nicely considering how many host countries use it

The Mighty 8th Virtual Jet Demonstration Team will be switching to it as our primary demo aircraft.

Out of curiosity what aircraft was being used before the F-5?

I'm going to fly it like a Cessna. 80 kts and 3000 ft.

Air to air on the inevitable f5 vs mig21 server. As for being useless, not sure how one of the most widely used fighters of dcs's core time period (1980's) can be considered useless. It won't compete with the f15, but the particular f15 we have is poorly matched with everything else in the game anyways.

Fast, low, and inverted.

Air to air on the inevitable f5 vs mig21 server. As for being useless, not sure how one of the most widely used fighters of dcs's core time period (1980's) can be considered useless. It won't compete with the f15, but the particular f15 we have is poorly matched with everything else in the game anyways.

I'll be there with you, lots of fun to be had in that match up. I even decided to hold a special grudge match event for when it launches, should be a blast.

Agree with your last statement as well, I think the Tiger fits the Cold War era of DCS very well

I'll be there with you, lots of fun to be had in that match up. I even decided to hold a special grudge match event for when it launches, should be a blast.

 

Agree with your last statement as well, I think the Tiger fits the Cold War era of DCS very well

Yeah, I think many forget that it is a direct matchup for the MiG-21, even being used to simulate it at Red Flag events. People cry out for more matchups and less standalone "out of place" aircraft and than complain when they actually get that. Particularly surprising given how popular the MiG-21 is, and how badly it needed a comparable opponent.

Out of curiosity what aircraft was being used before the F-5?

We were using the eagle.