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Please bring back object size settings!


Greekbull

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The problem with the above is it’s still creating double the number of models, even if one is low poly that’s still a big deal. DCS can challenge even the strongest machines as it stands now.

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I'm sorry but that still makes no sense.

 

What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.

 

You do not need two different models — you use one, and draw it at whatever size is needed. You do not need to draw the plane twice — you draw it once, again at whatever size is needed. These are wholly separate processes from using the 3D model to calculate world interactions. If they are using the drawn model for something else than being shown on screen, they have done something horribly silly and need to fix that irrespective of any and all other considerations because nothing should ever rely on what goes on in the rendering pipeline.

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I'm sorry but that still makes no sense.

 

What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.

 

You do not need two different models — you use one, and draw it at whatever size is needed. You do not need to draw the plane twice — you draw it once, again at whatever size is needed. These are wholly separate processes from using the 3D model to calculate world interactions. If they are using the drawn model for something else than being shown on screen, they have done something horribly silly and need to fix that irrespective of any and all other considerations because nothing should ever rely on what goes on in the rendering pipeline.

 

Looking back at it, to me it looks like they were going with a low poly for the damage model container. You need something in 3D space to calculate bullet rounds, not the rendering, but you would need the 3D wire frame for bullet hits and fragmentation in the 3D world for the calculations to be calculated off I'm guessing.

 

The Thread

 

Are there any details more, to share with us?

 

Say, plans to:

a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile

b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable

c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature

d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc

e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)

f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)

g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

 

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?

 

a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

1239480885_20160719_SpitfirecurrentDM.PNG.e3ffa4709bcace78b135e35b377542e7.PNG

1748925832_20160719_SpitfirenewDM.PNG.8386984957a212864c7e60fe5456fbd0.PNG


Edited by David OC

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What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.

Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.

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Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.

 

Dude. You need to calm down...


Edited by PeaceSells

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Looking back at it, to me it looks like they were going with a low poly for the damage model container. You need something in 3D space to calculate bullet rounds, not the rendering, but you would need the 3D wire frame for bullet hits and fragmentation in the 3D world for the calculations to be calculated off I'm guessing.

 

The Thread

 

Yes. You obviously need something to base the damage calculations off of. My point is that this something is wholly separate and distinct from whatever is drawn on-screen. What the graphics card does should not affect, nor be affected by, what other processes do with the same (much less with a separate, simplified) 3D object model.

 

If my graphics cards get a bit confused and starts drawing T90:s in the place of MiG-15:s, then that should not — must not — mean that the 1950:s plane I'm shooting at has suddenly acquired the hit calculations and damage characteristics of a 1990:s MBT. It could be drawing pink elephants for all I care, and the damage model should still be that of the actual plane because it would be insane otherwise.

 

Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.

 

That's just it: if it actually is the problem people are presenting it as, then that's the only option. If that is truly the case, they've done a Very Bad Thing™ and need to un-bad it, sharpish, as in “no, sorry, the Hornet can wait until 2025” levels of priority changes. There's really no two ways about it. I truly hope that it's just a confused message or language mixup — that they're not relying on the rendering pipeline to do unrelated sim calculations — because holy hell what a massive and easily exploitable error they've revealed otherwise.

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I'm very certain that is not the case, as ED has been separating the simulations to the graphics engine to allow for more multi core functions and vulkan api integration moving forward.

 

The only thing that needs updating from the simulation engine to graphics engine, would be the info need for the registered hits to display the correct bullet hole skin, that's the way I understand it anyway.

 

I think they will rework what they had before once the graphics is more settled and DS sorted out some more etc.

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+1 I'm brand new (again) after a long time and am relearning the game from scratch. I'm only using FC3 right now and I can't see anything before I'm dead. I have full labels on but it's near impossible, at least for me, at this point to pick out a specific ground target.

 

It makes me not want to play at all.

 

I see you guys arguing technical points back and fourth so coming from someone new.... I just want to see my targets and I don't care how it's done. It's a problem that I am having and it's very frustrating.

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  • 4 weeks later...
+1 I'm brand new (again) after a long time and am relearning the game from scratch. I'm only using FC3 right now and I can't see anything before I'm dead. I have full labels on but it's near impossible, at least for me, at this point to pick out a specific ground target.

 

It makes me not want to play at all.

 

I see you guys arguing technical points back and fourth so coming from someone new.... I just want to see my targets and I don't care how it's done. It's a problem that I am having and it's very frustrating.

 

Yeah it's a pretty big problem...unfortunately you really need some sort of VR/HD Label mod if you plan on flying in VR or 4K...

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In real world cockpit, you can't see a plane few miles away, let alone 22 miles away. When in actual cockpit, planes beyond 5-8 miles appear nothing more than a blurred dot. Use radar when flying. When in visual range, look, and you will see the actual plane.

I actually challenge anyone who sat in a cockpit say that they can see another plane beyond six miles on a clear day with no clouds. There is visual range beyond which the human eye can not see.

Learn to use the radar detection system on the jets. Without that knowledge, you are simply inviting a missile in your cockpit.

 

It is rationally unfair to be asking for ways to visually see planes 22 miles away from you.


Edited by terrafinale
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If they bring this back, please make the smaller object setting the default...I actually like having the smallest object setting and it forced me to use my radar and MK-1 eyeball better. It also helped develop my spatial awareness and 3-D mental picture of the airspace. I particularly didn't like being able to see a bandit 20+ miles away with the naked eye at 1080p. So if it comes back, make it the exception, not the normal setting please. With the big setting on, you might as well be using labels.

"There are only two types of aircraft, Fighters and Targets." Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson

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If they bring this back, please make the smaller object setting the default...I actually like having the smallest object setting and it forced me to use my radar and MK-1 eyeball better. It also helped develop my spatial awareness and 3-D mental picture of the airspace. I particularly didn't like being able to see a bandit 20+ miles away with the naked eye at 1080p. So if it comes back, make it the exception, not the normal setting please. With the big setting on, you might as well be using labels.

 

 

I use 4K monitor and also use VR. I have no issue. I use the radar most of the time. When I am in visual range, objects appear normal as in real world.

 

I spent countless hours familiarizing myself with the radar datelink and IFF. I believe it must be the first thing a newbie must do.

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In real world cockpit, you can't see a plane few miles away, let alone 22 miles away. When in actual cockpit, planes beyond 5-8 miles appear nothing more than a blurred dot. Use radar when flying. When in visual range, look, and you will see the actual plane.

I actually challenge anyone who sat in a cockpit say that they can see another plane beyond six miles on a clear day with no clouds. There is visual range beyond which the human eye can not see.

Learn to use the radar detection system on the jets. Without that knowledge, you are simply inviting a missile in your cockpit.

 

It is rationally unfair to be asking for ways to visually see planes 22 miles away from you.

 

 

I agree, which is why if they do bring it back, make the hardest settings the Default...I hosted a PvP Dogfight Server a few years ago, and locked out easy settings like the padlocks, external views and labels and a few VR users asked if I could enable labels as they were at a disadvantage. I declined the request as then every user could use labels removing the need for effective scanning, wingman communications, and good radar use.

 

 

But instead of shooting down the proposal, I think the best compromise is to bring it back with default as HARD settings! But I'm with you mate!

"There are only two types of aircraft, Fighters and Targets." Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I use 4K monitor and also use VR. I have no issue. I use the radar most of the time. When I am in visual range, objects appear normal as in real world.

 

I spent countless hours familiarizing myself with the radar datelink and IFF. I believe it must be the first thing a newbie must do.

 

 

Well said...perhaps the others requesting the big models are thinking this is War Thunder - LOL. Cheers!

 

 

PS: Sorry for not doing Multi-Quotes...will try that in a single post next time.


Edited by =JUICE=

"There are only two types of aircraft, Fighters and Targets." Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Its also criminally unrealistic to not see an enemy until you nearly collide with them. On some of the training servers, I know what type of A/C I'm looking for, where they are, and what altitude they're at and I still can't see them until I'm within a few hundred yards...

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Its also criminally unrealistic to not see an enemy until you nearly collide with them. On some of the training servers, I know what type of A/C I'm looking for, where they are, and what altitude they're at and I still can't see them until I'm within a few hundred yards...

 

How about setting real fov for starters?

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Real FOV won't make a difference until the huge spotting discrepancy between screen resolutions is resolved.

 

Ummm... untrue. Being zoomed too far out, i.e. wide fov, makes things smaller and therefore harder to see, so strictly speaking it does indeed improve visibility of objects in your focus, at the cost of overall lower SA and peripheral vision.

 

Regardless, it's time for my favorite forum phrase....

 

ARISE, GREAT CHICKEN, ARISE! We call this thread back from the depths of the Underworld and demand it do our bidding!

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Ummm... untrue. Being zoomed too far out, i.e. wide fov, makes things smaller and therefore harder to see,

The default wide FOV is DCS is very wide, too wide IMO. I have it limited to about 70% in the axis tuning menu. I think the default is meant for triple screens maybe but it’s almost fisheyed on a single 16:9

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I agree, which is why if they do bring it back...

They’re not bringing it back.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4127694&postcount=83

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  • 2 weeks later...

+1

Regardless of ED bringing it back or not.

This post lingers on a point that scaling vs expectation is a bit off.

I have had a feeling that the scaling of the sim is off. I have had NO WAY to prove that. Buildings look way to small, some of them look like they could fit on a hardpoint under the wing. YES I am joking, I don't believe them to be that small. I just feel they are.

Using the measuring tool in the DCS Editor, some runways are 60-100 meters wide. A soccer field is 100 meters LONG. When taxing around that it does not feel that large. YES the aircrafts are large in real life. But I have no sense that I could play a full sized soccer match on the width of a runway in DCS. The math adds up, you can, but the feeling of scale is off.

 

 

And objects size will help giving people good vision again. I am using a Vive VR system for display device. I like it a lot, resolution is poor(NOT ED's fault!), and I can not see far at all. Only when right on top of me. Labels are valuable to find anything.

I have a programmable keyboard and have set a function of activating labels on a key. Keep it off, but for that superman question; "Is it a bird, is it a plane...." I use labels.

 

 

My wish, honestly, Make scaling feel right, solve the object size for all regardless of 4K or VR. And after that, make labels unavailable unless in debug mode for mission creation and design.

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My wish, honestly, Make scaling feel right, solve the object size for all regardless of 4K or VR.

 

If you don't feel real even in VR nothing will help you. But do the test - eject! Seriously - eject and walk around the place, your aircraft, those buildings, trees and see how it feels. Maybe your scale feels off because there are no people and cars around to scale against that are present every day IRL. The scaling is right when your fov is right.

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Excerpt from Nineline's quote in that link:

"You need to think about what makes something more or less visible in the real world, and what about that is missing or needs improvement from ED, enlarging things isn't one of them."

 

I think this is the main point. There are many things IRL that make spotting objects either easier or harder depending on the situation and these are missing from DCS or are just simply not done well enough. This is really what needs to be fixed.

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if DCS puts a free soccer field without a stadium to use it as a TEST for the size it would be easier.

try to land with an AV8 harrier should occupy the whole center field.

It's so funny idea that I went for it :thumbup:

 

Check attachments. That field's long for over 100m according to ME. Sorry for terrain textures (low).

Harrier.miz

Harrier.thumb.jpg.f49f156fa20c958b2ffd3ecc7617ac0d.jpg


Edited by draconus

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