Flight Model modification question - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2018, 05:41 PM   #1
pmiceli
Junior Member
 
pmiceli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 60
Default Flight Model modification question

Is there a way to alter the flight model?

Specifically I want to set engine torque effects on the P-51D and TF-51D to a more realistic level. They are ridiculously light forces at the moment.
__________________
www.475FG.com
Member Forum: http://www.satansangels.activeboard.com/

pmiceli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 07:42 PM   #2
Magic Zach
Member
 
Magic Zach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Alaska
Posts: 710
Default

You know it's unrealistic how?
__________________
Magic Zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 10:36 PM   #3
M1Combat
Member
 
M1Combat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Prescott AZ, US
Posts: 442
Default

I'm sure it can be done offline...



But...


How do you know it isn't right? Do you have video, numbers... anything at all that backs up your claim? Also... this info you DO have... Is it from the specific P51 model we have in game?
__________________
Win-10 x64

Nvidia GTX970 (HTC Vive)
MSI Z77 MPower
Core i5-3570K
24GB G-Skill Trident-X

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals
(UCR - mapping throttle and clutch pedals together to form a rudder Axis)
GamesCom/Plantronics 780 USB Headset
M1Combat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 10:43 PM   #4
Ala13_ManOWar
Senior Member
 
Ala13_ManOWar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiceli View Post
Is there a way to alter the flight model?

Specifically I want to set engine torque effects on the P-51D and TF-51D to a more realistic level. They are ridiculously light forces at the moment.
Maybe you've take off assist switched on? Sometimes after an update it goes back on without further notice.


When you get used to it Stang isn't definitely that hard like it was at first when we all started learning (that's 2012 IIRC? ), but still she's a tail dragger and whenever mistreated shows all its rage.


Last time I flew, on Friday, ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶m̶p̶l̶i̶f̶y̶ ̶a̶s̶ torque were well present as always.


S!
__________________
"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
Ala13_ManOWar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 02:25 AM   #5
msalama
Veteran
 
msalama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,292
Default

Quote:
They are ridiculously light forces at the moment.
Evidence, please.
__________________
"The DCS NS 430 currently available for DCS: Mi-8MTV2. DCS NS 430 licensing and distribution policy for other modules is being discussed and will be disclosed later. Belsimtek team"
msalama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 01:05 PM   #6
pmiceli
Junior Member
 
pmiceli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
Maybe you've take off assist switched on? Sometimes after an update it goes back on without further notice.


When you get used to it Stang isn't definitely that hard like it was at first when we all started learning (that's 2012 IIRC? ), but still she's a tail dragger and whenever mistreated shows all its rage.


Last time I flew, on Friday, ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶m̶p̶l̶i̶f̶y̶ ̶a̶s̶ torque were well present as always.


S!
That was the first thing I checked. It seems as if there is some level of rudder assist happening even though it is been confirmed to be unchecked. Takeoff assist is all the way left as well.

Looking in the FM files I did notice something that makes me suspect takeoff assist is always at least 70 percent although without being able to see the underlying code it is impossible to verify.

As to how I know its wrong.

1. I have considerable experience in high powered single engine piston aircraft. Not the P-51 specifically but enough to know what should be happening in general.

2. I have had frequent discussions with people who have actually flown the aircraft and have inquired specifically (through a third party) on this subject to someone who is currently flying this aircraft.

3. There are numerous descriptions of the method used to demonstrate torque effects to new P-51 pilots. They are all very similar. and go like this. Climb high (10,000 feet is often cited), slow down to below 140 mph (120 is often mentioned), flaps down or up, then quickly add 60 inches MP. There are reports of 2 and 1/2 snap rolls before recovery is effected but most just describe the airplane being almost instantly upside down.

Try this in either DCS P-51 and the results are incredibly tame. There is a little left yaw and no significant left rolling moment. Maybe my installation is broken.

Here are a few quotes

Quote:
Torque on takeoff in a 51 was really a bitch if you failed to have the trim tabs set to compensate for that big fan in front. Trying to hold it on takeoff without the trim was almost impossible. I did it once and it taught me never to forget to set it again.
Quote:
I remember telling everyone I ever checked out in the Mustang to take it up high, lower the gear and flaps, then back it off to about 15 inches with the prop up to 3 grand... slow it down easy to about 130 mph... then SLAM in 61 inches fast. The resulting torque roll might have helped save a few lives on full power go-arounds. None of my guys ever "torqued one in" anyway...
Quote:
The pilot was making his first supervised solo flight in the same airplane that he received 31.5 hours of dual instruction in the 47 days preceding the accident. The flight instructor who provided the training witnessed the accident and reported that the pilot performed a "normal" takeoff followed by a left pattern to runway 26 with a "normal tail low wheel landing." He noted that as the airplane made contact with the ground, the pilot "had not pulled his throttle back to idle, as the noise level of the engine appeared greater than idle." After rolling 50 to 100 feet, the tail appeared to rise slightly, indicating the pilot was applying slight forward stick to pin the airplane to the ground. This was followed quickly by the rapid lowering of the tail to the point where the tailwheel struck the ground with a "loud bang noise." The airplane then "leaped back into the air" and the pilot applied takeoff power. The airplane pitched nose high and rolled left to the inverted position consistent with a torque induced roll. The upper surface of the left wing contacted the ground first, followed by the propeller and the canopy. The instructor expressed the opinion that the pilot "failed to successfully execute a standard go-around procedure after experiencing unexpected flight due to the lowering of the tail prematurely with power still on after touchdown."
I can't replicate anything like any of this in DCS.
__________________
www.475FG.com
Member Forum: http://www.satansangels.activeboard.com/


Last edited by pmiceli; 05-28-2018 at 01:09 PM.
pmiceli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 05:28 PM   #7
msalama
Veteran
 
msalama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,292
Default

Wasn't tame the last time I flew her a couple of months ago. However, I'm pretty sure I've seen people talking somewhere about a later OB bug that switches the takeoff assist / autorudder always on, so maybe you're suffering from that?
__________________
"The DCS NS 430 currently available for DCS: Mi-8MTV2. DCS NS 430 licensing and distribution policy for other modules is being discussed and will be disclosed later. Belsimtek team"
msalama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 02:05 PM   #8
Ala13_ManOWar
Senior Member
 
Ala13_ManOWar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiceli View Post
… I can't replicate anything like any of this in DCS.
Interesting quotes. With regards to full power go arounds I've seen similar comments on actual Stang pilots talking about how many died doing it carelessly.


What version are you running? stable or beta? Actually Beta features a few broken things in WWII modules for a reason.


Anyway, those details are well on the edge of the envelope, which is the trickier part of FM to get right if ever.


S!
__________________
"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Last edited by Ala13_ManOWar; 05-29-2018 at 03:46 PM.
Ala13_ManOWar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 02:09 PM   #9
Reflected
Senior Member
 
Reflected's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: LHDK
Posts: 1,960
Default

Interesting anecdotes, I've read a few similar stories myself. I can't replicate this in DCS either, I'd be curious to know why. (assist=off)
__________________


My Music
My DCS Skins
B350 Gaming Plus / Ryzen 5 1600 X @ 3,6 / MSI GeForce GTX1070 8192 / 16 GB RAM / Samsung PM961 512 SSD / MS FFB 2 / TM Warthog throttle / Saitek ProFlight pedals / TrackIR 4 PRO
Reflected is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 02:43 PM   #10
Vitormouraa
Veteran
 
Vitormouraa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SC, Brazil
Posts: 3,265
Default

Ok, the Auto rudder option is unchecked, but are you sure that the bar is all the way to the left?
__________________


SplashOneGaming is a community of viewers, players, and content creators built on combat flight simulation. Flowing through our veins is years of flight simulation experience in a multitude of different platforms. We welcome and encourage all of you to join us, whether you are seasoned or green, looking to learn, teach, or just trying to find someone to fly with.
Discord
Website
Vitormouraa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:32 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.