[Video] F-15C landing tips

More landings with no flare and they all got their gear intact also ;)

I saw the flare. Seriously, what are you looking for? It's just a 3 deg flare if that.

F-16 pattern. He flares:

What's this about a flare...?? I don't flare and haven't busted my gear... Touch wood.

Nothing wrong, I just cant see the flare that GG is talking about. Please use the time line on the videos and tell me where the flare is?

I saw the flare. Seriously, what are you looking for? It's just a 3 deg flare if that.

 

 

F-16 pattern. He flares:

 

F-16 does not count in this discussion GG. Find a F-15 flare landing :)

F-16 does not count in this discussion GG. Find a F-15 flare landing :)

*sigh* here:

You're just plain wrong, HiJack. In your first video, most of those F-15's were already in the flare, in the second one, the first landing F-15 clearly does flare. I can see his attitude change. Energy state varies but all these pilots round out, some just have a slight float some don't. Just let it die.

They are adding a bit of thrust but they do not change AoA.

"Adding a bit of thrust" would change angle of attack, actually. In the first video you linked I can clearly see the pilot changing pitch attitude, though, which also nullifies that option. (There is little to no reason why a jet pilot would ever add power in the flare. That would cause significant control problems, even if we ignore engine spool lag.)

Sure it counts, they use the same procedure.

And you don't see it because you're looking for something blatant, but that's not what's happening. The change most of the time is tiny. Sadly, there aren't any F-15 HUD landing videos that I know of, so an F-16 it is. Same technique.

F-16 does not count in this discussion GG. Find a F-15 flare landing :)

Here is the right way to land a 40000lbs aircraft. Above 40000lbs, you can still land but max recommended landing weight is 40000lbs.

Note on glidepath, AoA is 21 units, flare at the right time and aerobraking at 13.5 degrees (lower is not effective). Fly the nose down at around 90kt (aerobraking not very effective below 90kt), and then use the brakes.

Here is the right way to land a 40000lbs aircraft.

Very pretty landing. :thumbup:

(There is little to no reason why a jet pilot would ever add power in the flare. That would cause significant control problems, even if we ignore engine spool lag.)

Actually, that depends on the design of the aircraft. As an example, the C-17 doesn't change pitch attitude, but does a power push at 50' to reduce the decent rate. This is because when fully configured it is on the back side of the power curve.

That said, you are right about the pitch attitude on F-15s. I don't believe they are on the backside of the power curve and therefor should flare like most aircraft. Of course this is an educated guess on my part because I don't have access to the 15 dash1.

(There is little to no reason why a jet pilot would ever add power in the flare. That would cause significant control problems, even if we ignore engine spool lag.)

I disagree. I do it sometimes (in real world flying) to slow my sink rate. My aircrafts pitch or AoA does not change at all. It's the descent rate that changes.

Yes, good landing GG, same as I do but i don't flare. I keep 22 units all the way down so I might change that to 21 and add 1 unit flare. Can not se your HUD that clear on my tab but I guess your flare is 1 unit?

Best flare I have seen in some time

Nice :D

Nearly every landing has a flare. You guys gotta realize that not everyone uses the exact same techniques to fly their airplane. The majority of flying is through the use of "rules of thumb" while not exceeding limitations. Everyone holds their tongue in a different direction.

Actually, that depends on the design of the aircraft. As an example, the C-17 doesn't change pitch attitude, but does a power push at 50' to reduce the decent rate. This is because when fully configured it is on the back side of the power curve.

 

That said, you are right about the pitch attitude on F-15s. I don't believe they are on the backside of the power curve and therefor should flare like most aircraft. Of course this is an educated guess on my part because I don't have access to the 15 dash1.

Jets don't have a "power" curve. They have a Thrust Required curve. I understand what you are saying, however, but for most jet aircraft that's simply not an option. Engine spool lag and the inertia of most heavy/large jet aircraft will prevent that from being a recommended option. Practically speaking, if you are so slow on approach that you require power to soften the touchdown, you are flying an airplane with such a slow approach speed that it was not designed to flare (Read: Navy jets)... OR you are flying your approach with very poor airspeed control. Aircraft with widely varying weight have a calculated approach speed (or are flown by angle of attack) such that if a flare is required for that aircraft, it can be performed with the energy remaining from an approach flown at that angle of attack. That's half the purpose of Vref.

I disagree. I do it sometimes (in real world flying) to slow my sink rate. My aircrafts pitch or AoA does not change at all. It's the descent rate that changes.

I've seen you posting before, and as I recall you fly -145's. With all due respect, your angle of attack does change in the exact situation you described. If pitch remains constant but flight path angle changes in the vertical plane, you have changed the angle between relative wind and chord line, which is alpha defined. Let me know if you think that's not the case. I will bow to your expertise on the -145, but simply say that although a power adjustment may be a possibility for your aircraft, I'm sure it's not the recommended technique. Do that in the real F-15 and I imagine it might cause more harm than good.

No intent to ruffle any feathers here, so I hope I'm not coming across as a jerk.

It's actually very simple...

Certification requirements assume a structural limit of 10ft/s descent rate at maximum landing weight (i.e. excl. navy airplanes). If you don't slow the descent rate on an F-15 on a normal 3deg. glideslope you will break it.

Either you pull back on the stick or add power, the choice is yours.... 'choose wisely' :-)

 

 

 

I've seen you posting before, and as I recall you fly -145's. With all due respect, your angle of attack does change in the exact situation you described. If pitch remains constant but flight path angle changes in the vertical plane, you have changed the angle between relative wind and chord line, which is alpha defined. Let me know if you think that's not the case. I will bow to your expertise on the -145, but simply say that although a power adjustment may be a possibility for your aircraft, I'm sure it's not the recommended technique. Do that in the real F-15 and I imagine it might cause more harm than good.

 

No intent to ruffle any feathers here, so I hope I'm not coming across as a jerk.

I still disagree, my AoA doesn't change when I squeeze in a little more power. What I'm saying is that my chord line doesn't move if I keep the nose pointed at a constant pitch attitude.

For the 15, and when I worked EOR, some guys would do the same only to slow or stop your sink rate. That's the whole point.

I still disagree, my AoA doesn't change when I squeeze in a little more power. What I'm saying is that my chord line doesn't move if I keep the nose pointed at a constant pitch attitude.

No, your chord line does not move, you're right about that. Your flight path does change, however. Difference between longitudinal axis and flight path/relative wind = angle of attack. The flight school definition, anyway. If you adjust your flight path vertically without changing pitch attitude, you have changed angle of attack. This is way too academic to be productive discussion, though. My apologies.

For the 15, and when I worked EOR, some guys would do the same only to slow or stop your sink rate. That's the whole point.

Thanks for your service. I'll leave the subject, but a landing flare is properly executed with a pitch attitude change, not power. The Eagle drivers you watched may have been making low power changes, but if you asked them, they would no doubt tell you they flare with the right hand.

If you keep pitch attitude constant and add power to arrest your sink rate, then you have reduced your AoA.

Ok, I'll take you guys word for it. I've learned something today/night :thumbup:

 

 

Thanks for your service. I'll leave the subject, but a landing flare is properly executed with a pitch attitude change, not power. The Eagle drivers you watched may have been making low power changes, but if you asked them, they would no doubt tell you they flare with the right hand.

Oh, I agree w/you on that. I wasn't trying to imply that added thrust is used as the flare, but only to slow the sink especially if you pulled the power a little too soon.

Jets don't have a "power" curve. They have a Thrust Required curve. I understand what you are saying, however, but for most jet aircraft that's simply not an option. Engine spool lag and the inertia of most heavy/large jet aircraft will prevent that from being a recommended option. Practically speaking, if you are so slow on approach that you require power to soften the touchdown, you are flying an airplane with such a slow approach speed that it was not designed to flare (Read: Navy jets)... OR you are flying your approach with very poor airspeed control. Aircraft with widely varying weight have a calculated approach speed (or are flown by angle of attack) such that if a flare is required for that aircraft, it can be performed with the energy remaining from an approach flown at that angle of attack. That's half the purpose of Vref.

Yes, the term was not exactly correct and was used because it's easier to understand for the layman. What I was referring to was a landing engineered around a powered lift configuration where backside controls are more useful.

I don't think anyone here really cares what that means...the point of the post was to point out that not all aircraft are designed to land the same way.

The flare is 3 degrees, units of AoA aren't what you are watching when you flare. You raise the pitch to arrest descent - since you're -3deg on the glodeslope, you flare it to bting it to -0.5 or less (but not more than zero). If you do not, you could damage the landing gear or shorten its lifespan.

Yes, good landing GG, same as I do but i don't flare. I keep 22 units all the way down so I might change that to 21 and add 1 unit flare. Can not se your HUD that clear on my tab but I guess your flare is 1 unit?