Moving from cv1 to Reverb, what can I expect?

I'm playing with the thought to upgrade from my Rift cv1 to the HP Reverb, as I'm reading almost only positive things about it here. I wonder however if my system would still be up for the job.

 

As said, currently I'm using a cv1 and, as most people playing DCS in VR, it's a struggle to find a balance between decent framerates and reasonable visuals.

 

So, my first and uneducated guess would be, that my pc would struggle a lot more (maybe too much) when using a HP Reverb.

On the other hand I can imagine (again just guessing here) the default higher resolution of the Reverb would maybe allow me to run DCS with PD set to like 1.0 and still give a better overall sharpness.

 

Is there anyone here with approximately my system specs who went from the cv1 to the Reverb? What should I expect? Will I need to upgrade my system to even match the performance/quality I'm getting with my cv1?

 

Edit:

Oh and did I understand correctly that IPD can't be changed with the Reverb? Even the IPD setting within DCS?

 

My system specs:

8700k at default clock speed (overclocking would be my last resort as I don't have any experience with that)

GTX 1080ti

32GB DDR4 at 3000Hz

Z370

SSD

650W psu

 

My current DCS settings:

Textures High

Terrain textures High

Water Medium

Visible range High

Shadows Low

the rest set to minimum/off

PD 1.4 (to be able to kind of read gauges and stuff :P)

Edited January 20, 2020 by sirrah

I am playing with the same idea - cv1 to reverb

 

 

Our systems are very similar, the only difference is that i have i5-9600k (also at stock freq at the moment). I am surprised though, that you don't have smooth gameplay as I my rig handles CV1 perfectly without and fps drops at PD1.5 and very similar settings to yours.

I'm playing with the thought to upgrade from my Rift cv1 to the HP Reverb,

Edit:

Oh and did I understand correctly that IPD can't be changed with the Reverb? Even the IPD setting within DCS?

 

My system specs:

8700k at default clock speed (overclocking would be my last resort as I don't have any experience with that)

GTX 1080ti

32GB DDR4 at 3000Hz

Z370

SSD

650W psu

 

My current DCS settings:

Textures High

Terrain textures High

Water Medium

Visible range High

Shadows Low

the rest set to minimum/off

PD 1.4 (to be able to kind of read gauges and stuff :P)

 

I upgraded my H/W Before getting the reverb, but I still have the CV1.

Same settings, much smoother ride with the reverb. Despite having PD1.0 and mostly 90 fps with the CV!, they get som stutter and rahter much ghosting. The reverb just doesnt, as long as you keep the load on the computer to keep at least 45fps. Almost no ghosting at all.

 

There is a guide that you have to follow when getting the reverb. vr4dcs.com, and the thuds guide on reverb. It not as simple as with oculus, but with the guide you'll get spot on on the first try. It is not difficult, its not whqt Im saying. But if you follow the guide the settings will be better to begin with and you save a lot of time.

 

For the overclock part, if you play DVS, overclocking is a almost needed part of the setup. Specially the CPU, that often reach the limit on one core. You should at least see to that the CPU is running att the turbo speed all the time, and not throttleing down when gaming.

There is small software that helps with automatic O/C of the GPU, that might give you 10% of performance(which you need all 11 % of…) for free.

 

IPD of reverb is softwaredriven, no Changes of lenses etc. It is sad to be ok if you dont have too much difference of you IPD from stock 63.7mm(or something like that). Im quite Close to that so I really dont know how bad it is if you are way off.

The IPD in DCS is said to not be a real IPD-setting but rather the total scale of the Picture you see in the vr headset. (lika zoom in or zoom out I guess, havent used it)

Turn your graphics down. You won't run the Reverb at any decent frame rates otherwise. I just went from CV1 => Reverb. The clarity is amazing, fortunately.

I upgraded my H/W Before getting the reverb, but I still have the CV1.

Same settings, much smoother ride with the reverb. Despite having PD1.0 and mostly 90 fps with the CV!, they get som stutter and rahter much ghosting. The reverb just doesnt, as long as you keep the load on the computer to keep at least 45fps. Almost no ghosting at all.

 

There is a guide that you have to follow when getting the reverb. vr4dcs.com, and the thuds guide on reverb. It not as simple as with oculus, but with the guide you'll get spot on on the first try. It is not difficult, its not whqt Im saying. But if you follow the guide the settings will be better to begin with and you save a lot of time.

 

For the overclock part, if you play DVS, overclocking is a almost needed part of the setup. Specially the CPU, that often reach the limit on one core. You should at least see to that the CPU is running att the turbo speed all the time, and not throttleing down when gaming.

There is small software that helps with automatic O/C of the GPU, that might give you 10% of performance(which you need all 11 % of…) for free.

 

IPD of reverb is softwaredriven, no Changes of lenses etc. It is sad to be ok if you dont have too much difference of you IPD from stock 63.7mm(or something like that). Im quite Close to that so I really dont know how bad it is if you are way off.

The IPD in DCS is said to not be a real IPD-setting but rather the total scale of the Picture you see in the vr headset. (lika zoom in or zoom out I guess, havent used it)

 

Thanks for the feedback Gunnars :thumbup:

The guide on vr4dcs.com really looks helpful.

Reading you message, a few additional questions have arisen though

 

1. I thought, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that my 8700K would automatically go into turbo mode (up to 4.7GHz iirc?) when it's nearing 100% usage. Also, because I have no experience with overclocking, I'd probably stay on the "safe" side when doing so, in which case I doubt if it'll bring anything worth the "risk".
   
2. My IPD is about 67 (measured roughly using the mirror/ruler method), so can you, or anyone else maybe, still recommend the Reverb in this case?
   
3. Checking out vr4dcs.com, do I understand correctly that the Reverb requires Steam VR (and thus playing DCS through Steam)? Asking this, because although I have most of my modules on both platforms, the UH-1H and A-10C I bought before DCS went to Steam, so that'd mean I wouldn't be able to play those with the Reverb?
   

 

 

 

Turn your graphics down. You won't run the Reverb at any decent frame rates otherwise. I just went from CV1 => Reverb. The clarity is amazing, fortunately.

But if I turn down my graphics even further (guess I could set vis.range to medium, reduce tree and clutter ranges and reduce PD to 1.0), can I still expect a better overal image and experience with the Reverb?

Edited January 21, 2020 by sirrah

1. I thought, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that my 8700K would automatically go into turbo mode (up to 4.7GHz iirc?) when it's nearing 100% usage. Also, because I have no experience with overclocking, I'd probably stay on the "safe" side when doing so, in which case I doubt if it'll bring anything worth the "risk".

 
The Intel standard for turbo mode is not a constant turbo speed over time. It vill go down to the ”normal speed”(3.7Ghz in your case I think).The reason is that the small stock coolers dtc may not be able to keep temperatures ok during longer times of turbo mode. There is a possibility that your mothercard already run the cpu att the higher speed constantly( even though the intel spec says ”not”). I dont know very mich of this because I have never used those standard settings.
Make sure that your CPU runs at least at turbo mode(4.7) constant during gaming.
The CPU usage tell you very little about CPU load in DCS. Only one core will be highly loaded( probably 85% or more) and this core will limit your DCS performance.
The total will be shown as a much lower value( 8% in my i9 case, becase there is virtually 15 other cores/threads doing almost nothing).
Check the cores individually in the recource monitor from the task manager.
 
 

My IPD is about 67 (measured roughly using the mirror/ruler method), so can you, or anyone else maybe, still recommend the Reverb in this case?

You would need to google an maybe search this forum, I dont know this answer, maybe anyone else knows?
 
 

Checking out vr4dcs.com, do I understand correctly that the Reverb requires Steam VR (and thus playing DCS through Steam)? Asking this, because although I have most of my modules on both platforms, the UH-1H and A-10C I bought before DCS went to Steam, so that'd mean I wouldn't be able to play those with the Reverb?

 

You need WMR, steamVR for VMR and Steam. But you do not need Steam version of DCS

Steam is needed to make gaming via WMR work, nothing else than this.

I do not have the Steam DCS, I have the regular version starting from the shortcut on the desktop.

 

 

 

But if I turn down my graphics even further (guess I could set vis.range to medium, reduce tree and clutter ranges and reduce PD to 1.0), can I still expect a better overal image and experience with the Reverb?

 

I guess so. I have only used the reverb with my upgraded computer.

The Intel standard for turbo mode is not a constant turbo speed over time. It vill go down to the ”normal speed”(3.7Ghz in your case I think).The reason is that the small stock coolers dtc may not be able to keep temperatures ok during longer times of turbo mode. There is a possibility that your mothercard already run the cpu att the higher speed constantly( even though the intel spec says ”not”). I dont know very mich of this because I have never used those standard settings.

Make sure that your CPU runs at least at turbo mode(4.7) constant during gaming.

The CPU usage tell you very little about CPU load in DCS. Only one core will be highly loaded( probably 85% or more) and this core will limit your DCS performance.

The total will be shown as a much lower value( 8% in my i9 case, becase there is virtually 15 other cores/threads doing almost nothing).

Check the cores individually in the recource monitor from the task manager.

 

Thanks, I'll definitely look into this before moving on then.

I did.

 

I did build a new system for it. :D

 

I am waiting now for a new GPU probarbly in 6 months.

 

I have now good framerates 60 - 90 FPS with settings pretty steep.

 

I can all things see clear in the cockpit and have further sharp view in the envirement.

 

It's a huge bump up from CV1 but it's reccomend to build a new system, for benefit of the possibilities of the reverb as long as Vulcan not launched in DCS.

 

Good luck! :D

 

PS See the differnce in my old and new system.

Edited January 21, 2020 by boedha68

I did.

 

I did build a new system for it. :D

 

I am waiting now for a new GPU probarbly in 6 months.

 

I have now good framerates 60 - 90 FPS with settings pretty steep.

 

I can all things see clear in the cockpit and have further sharp view in the envirement.

 

It's a huge bump up from CV1 but it's reccomend to build a new system, for benefit of the possibilities of the reverb as long as Vulcan not launched in DCS.

 

Good luck! :D

 

PS See the differnce in my old and new system.

 

I can't justify spending €2000,- on building a new up to date pc. Heck, I will have to think of something really clever to explain to my girlfriend why I need to buy another €600+ HMD :smilewink:

 

Hence my initial question; will I be able to properly benefit from the HP Reverb, without upgrading my entire system? :)

[*]My IPD is about 67 (measured roughly using the mirror/ruler method), so can you, or anyone else maybe, still recommend the Reverb in this case?

 

My IPD is 68 and I have no issues. The software adjustment goes to 67 max, but I really not sure what difference that setting makes.

 

I would say you don't need to worry on that score.

 

BTW, use the iOS app 'Eye Measure' to get a good value for your IPD.

Don't think you'll have any issues running a Reverb on your rig, sirrah. The PD is the main performance killer, and you can lower that to 1.0, and still see an amazing improvement in not only image quality, but, ironically, you should even see a slight performance boost. Artificially generating the illusion of more pixels with PD is more costly than actually producing real pixels natively. The only thing you might cut down is to turn shadows completely off. That may or may not help things a little bit.

Don't think you'll have any issues running a Reverb on your rig, sirrah. The PD is the main performance killer, and you can lower that to 1.0, and still see an amazing improvement in not only image quality, but, ironically, you should even see a slight performance boost. Artificially generating the illusion of more pixels with PD is more costly than actually producing real pixels natively. The only thing you might cut down is to turn shadows completely off. That may or may not help things a little bit.

 

This was kind of the reaction I hoped to get :D

I knew the PD setting can be a framekiller (especially from 1.5 and higher), I just wondered if my understandings were correct about reducing it to 1.0 with the Reverb. You just confirmed my thoughts :thumbup:

 

I really hope though that I can keep shadows to low, as the in cockpit shadows are awesome imo. But it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for better overall sharpness

 

Thanks for the replies all :thumbup:

Oh, I do have a final question (for now :D)

 

Is it correct that I should make sure to get the latest Reverb version? And how would I be able to check that? Does it have a certain type number or a visual identification mark?

 

I read somewhere on this forum that the first releases had some issues, but can't seem to find that specific post/thread

A great way to graph your CPU speed is OCCT from ocbase.com - then you can see if your CPU is throttling down.

Oh, I do have a final question (for now :D)

 

Is it correct that I should make sure to get the latest Reverb version? And how would I be able to check that? Does it have a certain type number or a visual identification mark?

 

I read somewhere on this forum that the first releases had some issues, but can't seem to find that specific post/thread

 

I guess theres mostly v2 out there. I ordered directly from HP to minimize the risk of nit getting v2.

My actually says it during install i think.

 

 

For the pixel density, I’ve of course tested higher supersampling and seen some smaller increase in clarity but also a lot more load and very quickly reached the limit of my 9900KS/RTX2080ti overclocked etc. so I very happy to stay with 1.0 / 100%

This was kind of the reaction I hoped to get :D

I knew the PD setting can be a framekiller (especially from 1.5 and higher), I just wondered if my understandings were correct about reducing it to 1.0 with the Reverb. You just confirmed my thoughts :thumbup:

 

The whole PD/SS issue is very much a personal choice and has been discussed to death in many other threads here.

 

A general piece of advice is, use SteamVR SS rather than DCS PD. It is generally agreed to be more efficient in doing the same job.

 

Also remember that a PD of 1.4 - less than the 1.5 you mentioned - is the same as a SteamVR value of 200%.

 

Some people, like me, see a big difference between 100% and 150% without seeing too much of a performance hit. Others consider the hit to be not worth the difference. All you can do is try these things out for yourself and make a decision that is right for you.

 

Remember, just experiment. Nothing is irreversible!

Oh, I do have a final question (for now :D)

 

Is it correct that I should make sure to get the latest Reverb version? And how would I be able to check that? Does it have a certain type number or a visual identification mark?

 

I read somewhere on this forum that the first releases had some issues, but can't seem to find that specific post/thread

 

Yes. There is a clip added for connection the cable headset. First version had this not. I was one of the first customers. I returned version 1. :D

The whole PD/SS issue is very much a personal choice and has been discussed to death in many other threads here.

 

Some people, like me, see a big difference between 100% and 150% without seeing too much of a performance hit.

 

As ^ he says.

 

I dont like at all when the game isnt flowing. I rather lower quality a Little bit than supersample and get stutter.

 

I know some like it the other way around.

 

But from the context of coming from the CV1, the clarity of Everything is much better anyway. Its not only the resulotion. A big part is that the screendoor is almost invisible with Reverb compared to the CV1 where the screendoor actually covers a quite big portion of the Picture.

Coming from the CV1 you absolutely dont need supersampling to get a much clearer Picture. You might want to supersample anyway, but it is not needed to make a big upgrade.

As ^ he says.

 

A big part is that the screendoor is almost invisible with Reverb compared to the CV1 where the screendoor actually covers a quite big portion of the Picture.

 

Yup, and don't forget those horrible God Rays on the CV1 that are completely gone in the Reverb.

Thanks for the feedback Gunnars :thumbup:

The guide on vr4dcs.com really looks helpful.

Reading you message, a few additional questions have arisen though

 

1. I thought, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that my 8700K would automatically go into turbo mode (up to 4.7GHz iirc?) when it's nearing 100% usage. Also, because I have no experience with overclocking, I'd probably stay on the "safe" side when doing so, in which case I doubt if it'll bring anything worth the "risk".
   
2. My IPD is about 67 (measured roughly using the mirror/ruler method), so can you, or anyone else maybe, still recommend the Reverb in this case?
   
3. Checking out vr4dcs.com, do I understand correctly that the Reverb requires Steam VR (and thus playing DCS through Steam)? Asking this, because although I have most of my modules on both platforms, the UH-1H and A-10C I bought before DCS went to Steam, so that'd mean I wouldn't be able to play those with the Reverb?
   

 

 

SteamVR and Playing DCS through steam are two different things. You can play standalone DCS and use SteamVR for Windows Mixed Reality (WMR) goggles like Reverb. If and when DCS supports WMR directly you won't even need SteamVR.

 

Also, *anyone* can delid the 8700K CPU and overclock it safely by using a tool like RocketCool. Takes all of 40 minutes tops. My PC's been running at 5.1GHz for over a year now.

 

 

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/collections/complete-delid-relid-kit-for-i7-8700k

My IPD is 68.5, and I use the Reverb just fine,my hardware spec is below. I find the reverb runs better in terms of performance than my old ody+