Difficult to connect JTAC`s

Process for engaging a group of targets with AGM.65E

I have repeated the process and noted every step in the attached table format. Can one of the experts please review and feed back?

AGM-65E Process.pdf

Try using easy comms ( backslash key) to verify JTAC is showing in pull-down menu. I set the aircraft radio and the JTAC radio to both 133.0 in the mission editor.

It shows up in the menu but is grayed out and won't communicate. I've set both to 133 AM as well in my own mission and tried someone else's where they were set to 138. The way it behaves is like I used to see in the A-10 if I wasn't dialed to the right frequency but in this case dialing to the correct frequency doesn't fix anything. Or so it seems.

I followed your advice, and it worked for all 4 missiles, going through the protocol each time. Very time-consuming, you have to mess around in the danger zone for a long time and might get too close to a TOR or OSA for comfort.

 

PS: I re-reviewed Wags' little video and he skipped those steps, which upsets me a bit as we are all (o.k. most of us) following his guidance.

Yes, it's early access but we shouldn't be mislead this way.

Glad it worked...YES, I think there is way too much chatter necessary before you can launch..but try to make sure you contact JTAC well before you get to IP (like 25nm) then go thru all the talking until you get to "Continue" from JTAC..actually you can do this as early as you want on the way to the target...but have your response menu on the screen while JTAC is "waxing poetic" so you can quickly respond, etc. etc. ... after you hear CONTINUE, try not to be closer than 10nm because you still have LASER, SPOT, and IN to respond with before he says CLEARED HOT and you don't want to be on the target's doorstep as you launch, because most of the "made for MAVs" targets will shoot back....let me know if you need any help

It shows up in the menu but is grayed out and won't communicate. I've set both to 133 AM as well in my own mission and tried someone else's where they were set to 138. The way it behaves is like I used to see in the A-10 if I wasn't dialed to the right frequency but in this case dialing to the correct frequency doesn't fix anything. Or so it seems.

Can you send me the mission? I'll look at it or just post it here

I already identified a lot of these challenges in a wishlist post. If you’ve got additional input, please help me keep that post alive and visible!

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223209

I have repeated the process and noted every step in the attached table format. Can one of the experts please review and feed back?

LeCuvier, yes that's correct but at after the target is hit, you don't ALWAYS get a SHIFT response where JTAC confirms that the target has been destroyed....if you don't get a quick confirmation as in SHIFT or SHIFT RESPOND, you may have to select "OFF" as you retreat to IP to start again...this seems to ask for an assessment of the target and a determination from the JTAC to re-strike the target rather than look for another....I think this may because sometimes the target is not destroyed but damaged and may lose all "health" before you proceed to the next target, SO, it is probably best to wait a minute before you quit the mission thinking something's wrong...I've already had a situation where I was about to select OFF and before I pushed the button, JTAC said Target Destroyed...so wait just a bit before using "OFF" as a continuance

Edit: Ok I was wrong...SHIFT from JTAC means he is shifting the laser to another target so if there are multiple MAVs in the air spaced appropriately, after the first designated TGT is destroyed, the JTAC will paint the next target and so on...you can take out four targets this way in rapid succession

I already identified a lot of these challenges in a wishlist post. If you’ve got additional input, please help me keep that post alive and visible!

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223209

ABSOLUTELY ON POINT!!!! I will in deed keep your link going from my end....everything you siad was what I experienced as well but here's the irony...you say you'd like if the ME had the ability to allow the planner to set which weapon type is to be used or whether smoked should be used...it does have this, it just doesn't work...In the ME you can select what the JTAC will request from the in-game pilot to use....so after you have "Assign Group" and go into that task's EDIT, you can select the Group name, WEAPON to be used by category such as Unguided Bombs or in the Guided Category, things like ATGM or ASM or ARM....it's ALL there...they just don't work....I tell it to NOT use any smoke and sure enough it throws out WP...it's broken or just never developed fully...so yeah, I'm very frustrated with this ME

ABSOLUTELY ON POINT!!!! I will in deed keep your link going from my end....everything you siad was what I experienced as well but here's the irony...you say you'd like if the ME had the ability to allow the planner to set which weapon type is to be used or whether smoked should be used...it does have this, it just doesn't work...In the ME you can select what the JTAC will request from the in-game pilot to use....so after you have "Assign Group" and go into that task's EDIT, you can select the Group name, WEAPON to be used by category such as Unguided Bombs or in the Guided Category, things like ATGM or ASM or ARM....it's ALL there...they just don't work....I tell it to NOT use any smoke and sure enough it throws out WP...it's broken or just never developed fully...so yeah, I'm very frustrated with this ME

Thanks!

Yeah, that option is there - but only with the JTAC - assign group command, which requires you to tell the JTAC which targets to engage. The unfortunate side effect is that, as soon as you use assign group, the JTAC will immediately know where that target is, even if he can't see it. The end result is that you get Type 3 controls, since he can't see the target but still knows it is there, and no mark or laser as a result.

...SHIFT from JTAC means he is shifting the laser to another target so if there are multiple MAVs in the air spaced appropriately, after the first designated TGT is destroyed, the JTAC will paint the next target and so on...you can take out four targets this way in rapid succession

In my experience, how many missiles you can successfully fire in one run, depends on the spacing between successive targets on the ground plus on the interval between successive missiles. If they are closely grouped on the ground you can use smaller intervals and fire more missiles (provided you are not too close). With my test mission, I fire 2 missiles per run with about 4 s interval. Sometimes the second missile has to manage a fairly sharp last-second turn when the laser mark has shifted. I stick with 2 per run to avoid wasting a missile.

One thing I haven't figured out is how to bring in my wingman in the scenario when there are more hard targets than I can carry missiles. Any suggestions?

...you can select the Group name, WEAPON to be used by category such as Unguided Bombs or in the Guided Category, things like ATGM or ASM or ARM....it's ALL there...

In that dropdown I don't see "AGM". What would I choose in order to use a Maverick? It's not an ATGM I would think.

Thanks!

 

Yeah, that option is there - but only with the JTAC - assign group command, which requires you to tell the JTAC which targets to engage. The unfortunate side effect is that, as soon as you use assign group, the JTAC will immediately know where that target is, even if he can't see it. The end result is that you get Type 3 controls, since he can't see the target but still knows it is there, and no mark or laser as a result.

Wait a sec..when I tried the Stryker as the lasing platform, and I selected as the Mark, LASER, occasionally I got a red print warning that this could not be used due to LOS problem...so I think it does take LOS into consideration

In my experience, how many missiles you can successfully fire in one run, depends on the spacing between successive targets on the ground plus on the interval between successive missiles. If they are closely grouped on the ground you can use smaller intervals and fire more missiles (provided you are not too close). With my test mission, I fire 2 missiles per run with about 4 s interval. Sometimes the second missile has to manage a fairly last-second turn when the laser mark has shifted. I stick with 2 per run to avoid wasting a missile.

 

One thing I haven't figured out is how to bring in my wingman in the scenario when there are more hard targets than I can carry missiles. Any suggestions?

Yes, but the thing is, realistically, you wouldn't know how the targets are spaced or grouped and we shouldn't have to use F6 or whatever "View Ground Units" is, to determine that grouping because a real pilot doesn't have this ability unless you have the ATFLIR...plus depending on how you selected what units will do under fire, thes units will move after one of them has been taken out....I just flew a mission where I waited 3 seconds between MAV shots and the last one missed because the once closely group of four tanks started to spread out after the first kill....and as a result, my last MAV missed but not by much....I tried again this time waiting five seconds between launch at maximum distance of around 15nm and all were hit

In that dropdown I don't see "AGM". What would I choose in order to use a Maverick? It's not an ATGM I would think.

Sure, MAVs are ATGMs (Anti Tank Guided Missile)...that's exactly what a Mav is...I think HARM or Shrike, or Hellfires would be ASMs (Air to Surface Missiles)....I could be wrong tho...wouldn't be the first time :)

In my experience, how many missiles you can successfully fire in one run, depends on the spacing between successive targets on the ground plus on the interval between successive missiles. If they are closely grouped on the ground you can use smaller intervals and fire more missiles (provided you are not too close). With my test mission, I fire 2 missiles per run with about 4 s interval. Sometimes the second missile has to manage a fairly last-second turn when the laser mark has shifted. I stick with 2 per run to avoid wasting a missile.

 

One thing I haven't figured out is how to bring in my wingman in the scenario when there are more hard targets than I can carry missiles. Any suggestions?

Try mixed loadouts...like 4 AGM-64E, 2 Mk-20 (center station) or 2 MK-82 instead of the ROCKEYES OR 4 Rocket Launchers at stations 3 & 7 with MAVs at 2 & 8...and Clluster Bombs at the center station....I have had great success with the rocket launchers especially when set to SALVO

As painful as it is, we must remember that it is actually fairly unrealistic to launch more than one missile per pass anyway. It’s a bit of a cheat to fire them spaced that way and have the JTAC shift. The chances of the weapon not going where he wants it are too high. In reality, on a type 1 or 2 control you must get a cleared hot for each individual target. A type 3 works differently but will not give you a laser as the JTAC can’t see the target, but you could theoretically fire more than one IR mav in a type 3 control.

That being said, it’s unlikely a JTAC in real life would give the whole 9 line each time like the AI JTAC does, he’d just indicate same 9 line and remarks/restrictions then clear you hot again. So after launch you would return to the IP, and probably be back there before your weapon even hits. The JTAC would then give you a very abbreviated brief based on the original 9 line then clear you hot again, it would be much faster.

Wait a sec..when I tried the Stryker as the lasing platform, and I selected as the Mark, LASER, occasionally I got a red print warning that this could not be used due to LOS problem...so I think it does take LOS into consideration

LOS is absolutely factored in. If he doesn’t have LOS, he will give a type 3 control with no mark. Also, current max range of the laser is 8NM.

Can you send me the mission? I'll look at it or just post it here

Here's the one I've been working on. I may be doing something wrong in the cockpit but if you see something wrong in the settings I have here let me know. Thanks.

MultiplayerHornet.miz

LOS is absolutely factored in. If he doesn’t have LOS, he will give a type 3 control with no mark. Also, current max range of the laser is 8NM.

I'd like to mention, LOS is what I pointed out as the most likely reason in post #17. :music_whistling:

I know, I was replying to Alphamale ;)

LOS is absolutely factored in. If he doesn’t have LOS, he will give a type 3 control with no mark. Also, current max range of the laser is 8NM.

No, that's not it, you can't even set it in the ME because of the error

After a maverick lock and launch, do you have to keep the plane continuing to the target or can you make a turn and go back to the IP while the mav continues on to the target?

You can turn away, the mav guides off the laser pointed by the JTAC.

LOS is absolutely factored in. If he doesn’t have LOS, he will give a type 3 control with no mark. Also, current max range of the laser is 8NM.

See, these Type 2 and 3s can be controlled but you have to have correct LOS

See, these Type 2 and 3s can be controlled but you have to have correct LOS

 

Yup, that's what I mean! I think we're in heated agreement :thumbup:

(though for Type 3, no line of sight is required, as by definition, for Type 3 the JTAC need not see either the attacking aircraft or the target)

Can you send me the mission? I'll look at it or just post it here

Here ya go, try this

MultiplayerHornet_1.miz

Here's the one I've been working on. I may be doing something wrong in the cockpit but if you see something wrong in the settings I have here let me know. Thanks.

311Gryphon try this for that mission let me know if it works https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=198031&d=1542427650