Is this normal?

A while ago I posted about what was, apparently, missing blast damage for bombs and rockets. I was told by Wags that blast damage is indeed modeled.

So, in the screenshots below you see a hit from a Mk-82 coming off an AV-8B.

The truck received no damage, as far as I can tell that's not an armored truck (just a flatbed, with barrels of fuel on it).

Given that blast damage is modelled, can anyone with better knowledge than me, explain what is the logic behind a simple truck not exploding in these conditions?

Is it a bug or is it realistic? :huh:

Did you check damage via the F10 view or just the model not looking damaged? Thing about DCS model damage is it only has two states that I can tell, dead and perfectly fine.

So, you probably did damage it but it doesn't show on the model.

to be fair, there is an intermediate state for Sams, i believe, where they can't track you anymore, after taking 50% damage or something.

still a little refinement to ground unit damage (both in simulation and in visual feedback) would be a highly appreciated feature.

What I'm asking is basically why a soft target like a truck didn't get completely destoryed with a 500lb bomb hitting just a few feet away from it. What is the logic / physics behind this behavior?

Is that what would actually happen in reality?

Which brings up another point: I understand DCS has only 2 states for objects (dead or alive), so in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have the object be 0% to 49% = dead, and 50% to 100% = alive, rather than alive and kicking till it's absolutely at 0% health?

Regardless of the "amount of health" left, wouldn't you agree that IRL that truck would be at least damaged to the point of being totally disabled?

If you measure the distance based on the 25' length of that type of truck, it is a miss of about 110 feet. That isn't really that close. Based on the explosive weight of a Mk-82, that would only produce around a 3 psi overpressure at the target. Fragmentation would count for something but that varies wildly depending on the orientation of the warhead. This target should have taken some body damage but chances are it would be ok.

Thanks Bunyap, that's exactly the kind of detail I was looking for! Mind if I ask how you calculated that pressure rise would be 3 psi?

Plane physics are simulated, everything on the ground is simple arcade. This ammo truck is no different from a soldier, except that it has more Health Points.

Thanks Bunyap, that's exactly the kind of detail I was looking for! Mind if I ask how you calculated that pressure rise would be 3 psi?

Yeah, sure thing: https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/assets/convarms/Ammunition/IATG/docs/IATG01.80.pdf#page=10

I took some courses in this as a resume filler a while back, and yeah, it is just about as fun as it looks. :)

You can do a google search for 'Kingery-Bulmash Calculator' and come up with a lot of different automated options but keep in mind this is only a small part of the equation. It can be a very deep subject but I think they have a handle on it. For what it is worth, I have never seen anything happen that seems out of place.

I believe the only issue is that the damage is not immediately apparent to the player. That is realistic but does not make for the best gameplay. There are also probably some unrealistic expectations among us all when it comes to what a bomb can do and an over-estimation of how close they actually impact when viewed from the cockpit.

For example, I ran bombing competitions a while back where players made three bombing runs on a target. The average miss distance was around 50 feet, so for every 'shack' there would have been a miss of 100 feet or more:

https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=120285&d=1438688016

This was under ideal conditions and there was no limit to the amount of practice runs they could make. It really makes a person realize why laser guided bombs exist.

 

I believe the only issue is that the damage is not immediately apparent to the player. That is realistic but does not make for the best gameplay. There are also probably some unrealistic expectations among us all when it comes to what a bomb can do and an over-estimation of how close they actually impact when viewed from the cockpit.

 

Yeah I agree, I mean, I have no knowledge of the inner workings of DCS and surely the damage modeling of ground units can be improved, but the lack of visible damage is the main point.

How does a unit behave when the health is low but there is no visible damage? Is that truck still able to drive around if the health is, say, 30%?

Yeah I agree, I mean, I have no knowledge of the inner workings of DCS and surely the damage modeling of ground units can be improved, but the lack of visible damage is the main point.

How does a unit behave when the health is low but there is no visible damage? Is that truck still able to drive around if the health is, say, 30%?

I have seen damaged tanks drop out of formation and move more slowly than others that are un-damaged or only lightly damaged (according to their health bar on the F10 Map) If the damage is severe enough, they appear to stop participating in the fight altogether (but aren't damaged enough to explode)

I'd like to think this degree of apparent "diminished capacity" would apply to everything in DCS (we know damaged AI aircraft will quit a fight and try to get to the nearest neutral / friendly base) but I've only seen it clearly manifested on the ground with heavy armor. Maybe there's a way to try and quantify this for AAA or SAMs, but decreased accuracy is not something I've noticed so while something may not shoot at you with the same frequency when damaged, it can still ruin your day if you hang around to test the damage model.

Which brings up another point: I understand DCS has only 2 states for objects (dead or alive), so in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have the object be 0% to 49% = dead, and 50% to 100% = alive, rather than alive and kicking till it's absolutely at 0% health?

You need to differentiate between damage visuals and damage effects.

In regards to visuals DCS does indeed only know 2 states: alive (1%-100% health) and destroyed (0% health).

In regards to actual damage effects, DCS does offers more flexibility. Unit behaviour becomes gradually worse with increasing damage. That means a vehicle with 50% damage can only move at 50% of their max speed or a SAM that is 50% damage can only react with 50% of their normal reaction speed and so on.

To actually see a units damage state you need to switch to the F10 map and check the units health bar.