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MiG-29 EOS Scanzone left/right not working


BlackPixxel

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Hi!

 

There seems to be a bug with the EOS scanzone.

There are keybindings to move the EOS to left, center and right.

They seem to work, and the bottom horizontal line in the HUD changes just like it does with the radar scanzones.

 

Problem is: The HUD will always show tagets as if the EOS was centered.

When the EOS is left or right, a plane flying in front of you will still appear in the center of the HUD, but you cannot lock it with the cursor.

 

I am sure that this is not supposed to happen.

Does anyone have this issue too?

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Yes scan zone is limited to central only, they removed left and right capability for FC2 but kept the switch and animation in for some reason.

Also up, down elevation is done with the nose of the aircraft, the eos is fixed in place so no elevation control other than by moving the aircraft, it is this way rather than horizontally stabilised like the radar is.

"[51☭] FROSTIE" #55

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Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10

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Yes, the vertical EOS cursor should also be applied to the Su-27.

 

I wonder what the reason is, at least with the MiG-29 I assume it is because slight pitch movements of the MiG make the targets go up and down quite alot on the EOS. A bigger vertical marker would make it easier to get the target locked.

Or maybe the sensor has a low vertical resolution.

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Yes scan zone is limited to central only, they removed left and right capability for FC2 but kept the switch and animation in for some reason.

 

Yes there is no scanzones other than center, but..

 

Also up, down elevation is done with the nose of the aircraft, the eos is fixed in place so no elevation control other than by moving the aircraft, it is this way rather than horizontally stabilised like the radar is.

 

...it doesn't look that way if you look in the MiG-29 manual(RL russian) :)

 

In "TP" mode, the cursor can be slewed +/- 30 degrees in azimuth and +/- 15 degrees in elevation.

JJ

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Yes, the vertical EOS cursor should also be applied to the Su-27.

 

The EOS mode("OLS") looks different in the Su-27 - there is first a large box for "large area search" followed by a narrower one for "small area search".

 

I wonder what the reason is, at least with the MiG-29 I assume it is because slight pitch movements of the MiG make the targets go up and down quite alot on the EOS. A bigger vertical marker would make it easier to get the target locked.

Or maybe the sensor has a low vertical resolution.

 

The target cursor is marked as a 6 degree(vertical)by 4 degree(horisontal) box - so I guess it represents the immediate FOV of the sensor.:hmm:

JJ

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...it doesn't look that way if you look in the MiG-29 manual(RL russian) :)

 

In "TP" mode, the cursor can be slewed +/- 30 degrees in azimuth and +/- 15 degrees in elevation.

 

I'm not following unless you're implying the eos only scans what is in the 6x4 target designator. From what the manual states the same can be said in DCS, the scan coverage is displayed as a fixed +/-30 +/-15 and the cursor can be slewed to these limits.

I would have thought the td would be a sensor focus eg. Radar or seeker.

"[51☭] FROSTIE" #55

51st PVO "BISONS"

Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10

https://100kiap.org

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I'm not following unless you're implying the eos only scans what is in the 6x4 target designator.

 

No I am obviously not implying that.

 

From what the manual states the same can be said in DCS, the scan coverage is displayed as a fixed +/-30 +/-15 and the cursor can be slewed to these limits.

 

Then I misunderstood what you were saying - I thought you meant that the target cursor was fixed to center in elevation.

 

I would have thought the td would be a sensor focus eg. Radar or seeker.

 

Yes and what I was implying(theory) is that the shape of the cursor (6 by 4 degree box)might have something to do with the immediate FOV of the sensor.

JJ

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...it doesn't look that way if you look in the MiG-29 manual(RL russian) :)

 

In "TP" mode, the cursor can be slewed +/- 30 degrees in azimuth and +/- 15 degrees in elevation.

 

Those values should be the size of the IRST scanning zone which can be further reduced by selecting the narrow mode (then it's +/- 15 degrees in azimuth) so perhaps you misunderstood something when translating? E.g. IRST scanning head vs target selection cursor?

 

In the Yugoslav MiG-29 manual, I've found no such reference in regards to the cursor movement limits. Besides, what would these degrees mean anyway when the scanning picture is projected on the HUD?

 

Also, the cursor should be vertically elongated, apparently.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=197445&stc=1&d=1541750372

2054818557_mig-29kolstp.jpg.2cea62350fbab6386e91708380cc98da.jpg


Edited by Dudikoff

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Those values should be the size of the IRST scanning zone

 

Yes of course.

 

which can be further reduced by selecting the narrow mode (then it's +/- 15 degrees in azimuth) so perhaps you misunderstood something when translating? E.g. IRST scanning head vs target selection cursor?

 

I didn't see any reference to a narrow "TP" search mode in the MiG-29 manual - only a +/- 30 degree(azimuth), +/- 15 degree(elevation) displayed scan(search) area and a +/- 30(both azimuth and elevation) display area for the reticle(locked target). See attachments.

 

AFAIK the wide/narrow search modes only exists in the Su-27 "OLS" mode.

 

In the Yugoslav MiG-29 manual, I've found no such reference in regards to the cursor movement limits. Besides, what would these degrees mean anyway when the scanning picture is projected on the HUD?

 

I have no idea what you are referring to :huh:

 

I thought Frostie said that the target cursor couldn't be moved in elevation("no height control"), but I realise that he meant that the actual scan zone cannot be moved in elevation - this confused me since the scanzone cannot be moved at all(fixed forward).

 

Also, the cursor should be vertically elongated, apparently.

 

Yes thats what I was talking about - as you can see in the first attachment, the cursor is shown as a 6 by 4 degrees box and I was wondering about what this(the degrees) signifies.

TP_mode_search.jpg.584d8aa4ed3866321c04258824f99706.jpg

TP_mode_lock.jpg.1050a9a0b40680eb11b8bcdf1d2a49df.jpg

JJ

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EOS has 4x6 because its scan raster has vertical as primary axis, while radar it is horizontal and thus 8x4.

 

29 EOS does have wide and narrow search modes in real life, there is also possible to set gain of the IR sensor.

 

Ok thanks :) . I didn't find the info about the wide/narrow search mode, so I assumed that it wasn't there since the symbology looks different in the Su-27.

JJ

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Yes thats what I was talking about - as you can see in the first attachment, the cursor is shown as a 6 by 4 degrees box and I was wondering about what this(the degrees) signifies.

 

It's interesting how they left the scan zone in search mode compressed to match the bottom line (which indicates the scan zone direction) even though it's fixed on the MiG-29. Probably because there's a lot of commonality between the WCS systems between it and the Su-27.

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DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

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Some doubt regarding R-73 Archer and EOS.

 

Only a few weeks ago got to realise that:

 

To get an R-73 seeker lock with Helmet Mounted Sight mode, EOS has to be switched on too.

(I know that also exists the Longitudinal Aiming Mode, where EOS and Radar are switched off.)

 

My doubt is, I thought EOS was merely a search / track sensor.

And the Helmet Mounted Sight alone, would guide the actual R-73 missile seeker head to the target.

 

So, by mere curiosity why is EOS needed too ?

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It shouldn't be needed, the helmet sight isn't implemented authentically. For that matter, neither are the missile seekers, otherwise you'd see a lot more pre-emptive flare use to defeat HMS :)

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It shouldn't be needed, the helmet sight isn't implemented authentically. For that matter, neither are the missile seekers, otherwise you'd see a lot more pre-emptive flare use to defeat HMS :)

 

Hello GGTharos,

 

Well, I really was in doubt.

But after some decades of flight sims where many procedures are done by instinct, and much internet browsing, sometimes one starts to get not so sure anymore.

 

Thank you for the confirmation.

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Id' say it is one of the biggest issues I have with the MiG-29. The R-73 Archer and HMS sight are the most important and well known weapon system of that aircraft. The very feature that was years ahead in the 1980s and still makes it a dangerous foe in close dogfights. I do expect FC3 aircraft to be a bit simplified, but the current HMS ring that locks and latches onto a target is very far from the system in real life.

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Id' say it is one of the biggest issues I have with the MiG-29. The R-73 Archer and HMS sight are the most important and well known weapon system of that aircraft. The very feature that was years ahead in the 1980s and still makes it a dangerous foe in close dogfights. I do expect FC3 aircraft to be a bit simplified, but the current HMS ring that locks and latches onto a target is very far from the system in real life.

 

I'm also an enthusiast of that kind of technological features.

 

(For example, I remember like it was yesterday the first time I saw something like Helmet Mounted Sights and such... in the 1983's "Blue Thunder", with Roy Scheider.)

 

For the little I know from youtube videos, isn't the MiG-29's HMS essentially a monocle lens with some kind of "cross" projected ?

 

Also, what other features does it have ?

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The cross could blink etc to inform you about the status of the given sensor. It was quite useful, though I don't recall the details.

USAF/USN tried HMS back in vietnam or Korea, but given the sidewinder's limitations at that time (As well as HMS technology overall), it was deemed not useful.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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