F/A-18 Carrier landing speed bleed.

Howdy all,

I've been practicing the carrier landing (CAT I), but I am having a really hard time bleeding off speed down to 250k on the upwind turn.

I know about the 1% rule, so I am doing 350knots on the turn, I will pull 3.5g and slowly decrease it until it gets to 250knots, 2.5g which should happen at the middle of the turn (I've seen this on videos, too). BUT, even if I am following the rule, and I extend my speedbrake just as I start the turn, my plane won't bleed enough speed, I get to 250 knots after the turn is complete, and not in the middle, so I am way too fast before I can do the downwind, therefore my whole pattern gets butched.

What am I missing? I NEVER see throttle usage explained in videos for CV landing, only how you shouldn't reference speed after the upwind turn and should focus on the ebracket, but I can't focus on a brake that won't even be there since I can't put my LG and Flaps down above 250knots as per the pattern, it's like there is a huge portion of it not being explained. I find it amazing how someone can go from 350knots to 140knots in less than 10 seconds and not explain how to even accomplish that.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks!

uh... go idle on the throttle

Idle throttle and pull the stick back all the way until you're on speed. I never need speed breaks that way.

P.S. been reading too many Kevin Miller books...

and pull the stick back all the way until you're on speed.

Don't do this

I can already feel this thread is gonna be great

When you hit the break 350 kts Supertaquito, go to idle on the throttle, speed brake to full (You need to hold the switch until full brake) Change Bank degrees "dynamically" so you can hold 800 feet level at 1% G of speed throughout this turn.

You should be around 250kts at the 90 degree mark, so while your still pulling 1% G, once you hit 250 drop the gear and go full flaps all while pulling 1% (250kts = 2.5G) and staying level at 800 feet, as you are coming on to the downwind wings level bring the throttle up to catch the speed once it's near on speed, around 140 kts. I throw in a bit of trim just before coming out level.

It's all dynamic and takes practice and more practice.;)

When you hit the break 350 kts Supertaquito, go to idle on the throttle, speed brake to full (You need to hold the switch until full brake) Change Bank degrees "dynamically" so you can hold 800 feet level at 1% G of speed throughout this turn.

 

You should be around 250kts at the 90 degree mark, so while your still pulling 1% G, once you hit 250 drop the gear and go full flaps all while pulling 1% (250kts = 2.5G) and staying level at 800 feet, as you are coming on to the downwind wings level bring the throttle up to catch the speed once it's near on speed, around 140 kts. I throw in a bit of trim just before coming out level.

 

It's all dynamic and takes practice and more practice.;)

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate that, I was led to believe you were supposed to use the initial speed without touching the throttle, great to know.

Thanks again!

Also, I've heard from an f-18 pilot that he's heard from other pilots that if you hold the trim up from your break turn until you hot 250 knots you'll end up on speed.

I've only tried it once since but it seems to work.

Quote. ....When you hit the break 350 kts Supertaquito, go to idle on the throttle, speed brake to full (You need to hold the switch until full brake) Change Bank degrees "dynamically" so you can hold 800 feet level at 1% G of speed throughout this turn.....

For a break, you should always, roll first, then brakes, throttle, pull. Otherwise if you are the lead in a close formation you’re going to be very unpopular.

Only if it's alone in an alley.

But yeah, hold the trim hat to the "nose up" position.

Quote. ....When you hit the break 350 kts Supertaquito, go to idle on the throttle, speed brake to full (You need to hold the switch until full brake) Change Bank degrees "dynamically" so you can hold 800 feet level at 1% G of speed throughout this turn.....

 

For a break, you should always, roll first, then brakes, throttle, pull. Otherwise if you are the lead in a close formation you’re going to be very unpopular.

Hope you realize flyco that these controls are separate, perhaps you could bank and pull the throttle back at the same time.;) Oh and extend the speed brake, that's a separate switch too..

David, I use both hands. My right puts on the roll, my left closes the throttle (immediately the roll has started) and the separate, flexible thumb on my left hand operates the airbrakes.

Seriously, the difference is a fraction of a second, and I did make the remarks with my tongue in my cheek. However, if you are in very close formation, and the lead puts out the brakes and closes the throttle, you will overtake him. I am just suggesting that you need to consider your wingman.

I haven't flown a fast-jet for over 50 years, but I have flown two and a bit tours as an RAF QFI on jet trainers. I have also flown in the sim with leaders who are slow to roll at the break and I find it very disconcerting - even more so since I passed the age of 75! I like to think that I am always aware of the man on my wing, and I still believe that of the 3 actions, roiling must always be the lead action - even if it only by a hundredth of a second.

Don't want to start a squabble - I have seen many of your posts, and I respect your views. Hope to fly with you on a server some day.

Don't do this

Why don’t you provide some actual useful information as you seem to be so keen to request on other threads?

The irony is wonderful.

David, I use both hands. My right puts on the roll, my left closes the throttle (immediately the roll has started) and the separate, flexible thumb on my left hand operates the airbrakes.

 

Seriously, the difference is a fraction of a second, and I did make the remarks with my tongue in my cheek. However, if you are in very close formation, and the lead puts out the brakes and closes the throttle, you will overtake him. I am just suggesting that you need to consider your wingman.

 

I haven't flown a fast-jet for over 50 years, but I have flown two and a bit tours as an RAF QFI on jet trainers. I have also flown in the sim with leaders who are slow to roll at the break and I find it very disconcerting - even more so since I passed the age of 75! I like to think that I am always aware of the man on my wing, and I still believe that of the 3 actions, roiling must always be the lead action - even if it only by a hundredth of a second.

 

Don't want to start a squabble - I have seen many of your posts, and I respect your views. Hope to fly with you on a server some day.

All good flyco, :thumbup:

Mine was also a bit of tongue in my cheek...;)

I just didn't want to confuse the OP with too much info in one hit.

I Try and keep it as clear and simple as possible so they can see the whole picture of what needs to happen.

Why don’t you provide some actual useful information as you seem to be so keen to request on other threads?

 

The irony is wonderful.

The useful information was to not pull all the way back on the stick until you're on speed. Nothing more needed to be said as the first post gave the OP what he was missing. Also if you're going to be a jerk at least do it when it's warranted. I didn't create a thread asking for information that I could gather myself.