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Old 08-09-2017, 10:41 PM   #1
nessuno0505
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Default ILS / TACAN landing questions

This is my situation: I've just finished the gun and rockets training mission, the instructor tells me the mission is over. I fly a little bit more over the abandoned X-shape runway in order to destroy all the ground targets, then I decide to land. So I go to the CDU divert page and select a near airbase: I choose Kutaisi. So I set appropriate VHF AM frequency and ILS frequency and I switch the ILS panel on. I do not set TACAN: the kutaisi divert page tells me: TCN: 44, with no X nor Y, so I don't know how to set TACAN. Anyway: I contact tower and declare "inbound". They give me a heading and a mileage and they tell me runway 26. Since kutaisi has only one runway - runway 8 - and 26 is the opposite of 8, they want me to land from the opposite side, the one without the four lights (two red and two white to aid landing). They don't tell me if I have to land aided by ILS or TACAN... how do I know which of the two I should use? Since I do not know if TACAN is 44X or 44Y, I choose ILS and switch on ILS button on the NMSP. The problem is that nothing happens! I proceed right on the assigned heading but no ILS signal detected, and I greatly overtake kutaisi. So I decide to ignore ILS and approach the runway manually. The weather is clear so I can do it quite easily, and when I'm on final and contact tower asking for landing, they give me permission to land. What is wrong with my approach? Why I can't detect ILS like in the landing training mission? Thanks.

Last edited by nessuno0505; 08-09-2017 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:51 PM   #2
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Use the kneeboard to see all the relevant information on any airport. Kutaisi s tacan frequency is 44x which you can see on the kneeboards kutaisi airdrome page. IIRC kutaisi has ILS beacon only on the runway 08 thats probably why you are not getting the the ILS signal. You dont need to use the tacan when you can use the cdu s divert page.

Edit: If you dont know how to open up the kneeboard, go in to the adjust controls menu and select kneeboard on the category list.

Edit2: Oh and ATC s dont tell you how to land in dcs or at least i ve never heard them telling anything about that.

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Old 08-09-2017, 11:09 PM   #3
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Thank you, so it is as I thought: ILS can be received only from the side with the aiding lights, so runway 8. I know how to open kneeboard. So if they want me to land on runway 26 I cannot use ILS. So I should use TACAN? But why you say I don't need to use tacan with CDU divert page? If I can't use ILS - it's only on runway 8 - and I don't need TACAN, so how can I land instrumentally on runway 26? In my case the weather is good so I can see the runway from the distance, but if there is fog or low visibility? Or maybe in that case ATC gives me runway 8? And why I do not need TACAN with CDU divert page? So when should I use TACAN? Thanks again.

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Edit2: Oh and ATC s dont tell you how to land in dcs or at least i ve never heard them telling anything about that.
I know, but they give me a heading, so I thought that heading was useful to intercept ILS like in the landing training mission, and since it can't be on kutaisi runway 26, I thought at least I should intercept TACAN...

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Old 08-09-2017, 11:27 PM   #4
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Well, you can actually see the the airport on your hud when you use the divert page and from the kneeboard pages you can get the course line for the runway you intend to land on. So its everything tacan has, plus the indication on the hud for the airports exact location. But of course this is my preference.

About the ILS signal receiving, on the kneeboard pages you can see which airport has ILS or TCN beacon on which of their runways and their frequencies, the atc frequencies, runway courselines and the map of the airport. Some of the airports only has 1 ILS beacon some of them more.

To be honest only times i pay attention the atc is when they tell you to go around or go to alternate which usually means someone else is already on the runway. Other than that just land however you want to. In multiplayer there are actual people doing the atc s job which means you should listen to them but in singleplayer ai is not very usefull as an atc.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:46 AM   #5
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A few points in addition to what Kyle already said.

The ATC in DCS is very basic. It'll pick the landing direction based on wind. Visibility, ILS and so on don't play any role in picking the runway (at least not that I know of).

When inbound, the ATC will always direct you to a point approximately 10 nm from the airport, which should be your Final Approach Fix, that is: if you overfly that point headed for the airport, you should be properly aligned with the runway.

Be aware that some runways only allow one direction for takeoff and/or landing; on these you might actually be instructed to land or take off with a tailwind. Batumi comes to mind: the ATC will always want you to land from the Black Sea onto runway 07 or 08 (or something in the vicinity thereof) and and pick the opposite direction for take-off, regardless of wind.

Just to be sure: there's no link between PAPI (the four lights next to the runway) and ILS. A runway could have either one, or both, or none of these.

When you use the F10 map, click on any airport symbol for an overlay with lots of information like tower freqs, TACAN (including Morse code identifier), available runways, ILS (again, including Morse code identifier).

In DCS, ground based TACAN is always X, airborne (tankers) is always Y. So if the CDU gives channel 44 for an airport, it is 44X.

Like Kyle suggested, when you use the CDU divert page and pick an airport via the LSK next to it (or the OSB in the MFCD CDU repeater), this airport will also become your active steerpoint, pre-set to the proper altitude MSL. If all else fails, you could use that steerpoint for navigation.

Basically, just keep in mind that the ATC in DCS is next to useless. Feel free to ignore it entirely and perform your own navigation and do it as realistic (or unrealistic) as you wish.

In C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Doc\Charts you should find some approach and departure charts as well as airport diagrams that are much more detailed than the kneeboard charts.

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurgon View Post





Just to be sure: there's no link between PAPI (the four lights next to the runway) and ILS. A runway could have either one, or both, or none of these.








Whoa, whoa, whoa..... Is the PAPIs working again?


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Old 08-10-2017, 04:02 AM   #7
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Whoa, whoa, whoa..... Is the PAPIs working again?
Not sure, haven't flown in Caucasus in a while.

I just mentioned it because OP brought it up, and I wasn't sure if it was clear to him that PAPI and ILS are not necessarily connected to each other.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:05 AM   #8
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Oh ok. Understood.


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Old 08-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurgon View Post
In DCS, ground based TACAN is always X, airborne (tankers) is always Y.
That's very interesting, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Yurgon View Post
Basically, just keep in mind that the ATC in DCS is next to useless. Feel free to ignore it entirely and perform your own navigation and do it as realistic (or unrealistic) as you wish.
Talking to someone who tells you "you can land" is at least more realistic than landing where you want when you want without telling nothing to anyone, even if the only thing this "someone" tells you is just "land".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle7907 View Post
Whoa, whoa, whoa..... Is the PAPIs working again?
In the training landing mission the instructor tells PAPI is there, but I can't see it. In Kutaisi I can see "something" just before runway 8 that should have some lights, but I cannot tell you if the lights function or not... maybe yes or maybe no, I've seen them only white even if I was aligned, but I'm not sure about that.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nessuno0505 View Post
Talking to someone who tells you "you can land" is at least more realistic than landing where you want when you want without telling nothing to anyone, even if the only thing this "someone" tells you is just "land".
You could, for the sake of something to do, tune to tower's radio freq pretending it's unicom, key up your mic and make traffic calls to yourself as if the field was uncontrolled. It does sorta seem dumb to talk to yourself, but I do this some nights when I feel especially lonely. Such are the woes of flying single player.

EDIT: And yes, it does seem the PAPIs are still non-functional.
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