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Old 09-18-2015, 04:38 AM   #1021
vicx
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The likelihood of any modern red fighter being developed in incredibly slim, given the current Russian attitude towards declassification.
USA ended up with lots red fighters during the 1990s and early 2000's some with very new equipment (thank-you ex-soviet republics) so why would it not be a US developer that could make the most modern red fighter using this source of information. USA probably also found some modern Soviet technology buried in the sand in Iraq.

Want to make a modern red fighter for DCS - talk to the USAF.
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:43 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by tovivan View Post
Don't forget that one of it's enemies will be one of the newest and best fighters in the world, the Eurofighter.

Which makes me wonder, isn't it classified? How could the developers get enough documentation for a module? Why can't a Su-35 or a MiG-35 be made then?
The VEAO Eurofighter is part of a contracted project for the RAF, hence they probably have unprecedented access to real data. However, Ells stated that a big part of the development process is heavily redacting parts of the module and removing classified systems. Part of the trade-off with cutting edge aircraft in something like DCS.

I actually prefer older aircraft because the lack of tech make them more interesting/challenging to operate. In real life, I would prefer something like the Eurofighter/F-22/Su-35S, because you are much less likely to make a lethal operator error with all of the automation. But with a sim, the challenge makes it much more fun and the risk of screwing it up keeps me interested and learning.

Anyway, it is probably a lot harder to make truly contemporary aircraft for DCS, but there is hope for the future since the Eurofighter will probably demand competition, even if the limitations make it less complete than say the upcoming F/A-18C.

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Old 09-18-2015, 04:44 AM   #1023
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Originally Posted by vicx View Post
USA ended up with lots red fighters during the 1990s and early 2000's some with very new equipment (thank-you ex-soviet republics) so why would it not be a US developer that could make the most modern red fighter using this source of information. USA probably also found some modern Soviet technology buried in the sand in Iraq.

Want to make a modern red fighter for DCS - talk to the USAF.
Too bad im french.

Last edited by didilman; 09-18-2015 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:50 AM   #1024
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A few points from my side:

- Like BlackLion has said: VEAO is also developing a Eurofighter sim for the RAF, so they have access to classified stuff, but are not allowed to bring all of it to DCS. So they have to cut some stuff and emulate it instead. But they also said, that we won't notice a difference unless we are working with Eurofighters IRL.

- DCS as a hardcore flight sim should not at all be about balance regarding development of aircraft and weapon systems!! That's entirely up to the mission makers! Of course it will be unfair, if you just make a mission and put every available western plane on blue side and every available eastern plane on red side. But that's kinda retarded/unrealistic anyway. Sadly it's reality on many DCS servers. I hope that'll change too more realistic missions with realistic set ups and realistic objectives when more and more aircraft become available to us.

- I'm not so stoked by potential developments of modern fighters for DCS, because of classification. For me DCS stands for accurate simulation of military aircraft and this can't be achieved when the systems are classified. So I'm happy with Cold War stuff

- I also would like to get more russian aircraft, simply because they're different and I like to figure out how to use them. I would be really stoked if we would get a DCS level MiG-29
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:05 AM   #1025
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So with the time period for declassification of secret information, we'll just have to stick to WW2 aircraft only?

And of course you will then be up against the other issue - no combat experienced pilots left to ask, or no flying examples remaining.

Why should redaction make the Typhoon any less worthwhile? As stated, unless you know what's been redacted, how can it be missed?

Face it, there are, and always will be a lot of obstacles that cannot be overcome in simulations like DCS World. Anyone who imagines otherwise is just kidding themselves.

All anyone can ever hope for is that we get the best possible modules given the obstacles the developers will have to overcome. If we get as close to perfection as the developer can achieve, I'll be content.

And as has already been said, balance is the remit of the mission designer.

I'd like to see more soviet block aircraft, I'd like to see more aircraft from all eras. As long as they are made to the same standard as the MiG-21Bis, bring it on, I'm already in the queue to buy it!
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:15 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by NeilWillis View Post
So with the time period for declassification of secret information, we'll just have to stick to WW2 aircraft only?

And of course you will then be up against the other issue - no combat experienced pilots left to ask, or no flying examples remaining.

Why should redaction make the Typhoon any less worthwhile? As stated, unless you know what's been redacted, how can it be missed?

Face it, there are, and always will be a lot of obstacles that cannot be overcome in simulations like DCS World. Anyone who imagines otherwise is just kidding themselves.

All anyone can ever hope for is that we get the best possible modules given the obstacles the developers will have to overcome. If we get as close to perfection as the developer can achieve, I'll be content.

And as has already been said, balance is the remit of the mission designer.

I'd like to see more soviet block aircraft, I'd like to see more aircraft from all eras. As long as they are made to the same standard as the MiG-21Bis, bring it on, I'm already in the queue to buy it!
Why WW2? Most Cold War aircrafts are also unclassified today.

About the importance of accurate simulation: I guess we have different opinions here, but that's fine
For me an aircraft in DCS has to be as accurate as it can get within the framework of DCS. Classification prevents the devs from doing so, so I would rather not have such an aircraft at all, since it would be build upon second guessing how the systems work. I just don't like that, but I can understand if you don't see it that way and rather have an aircraft as close as possible to reality than not having it at all

Last edited by QuiGon; 09-18-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:30 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by tovivan View Post
I'm not very familiar with the plane, but what is so good about MiG-23 that quite a few people want it? From the little I know it's old and not really competitive nowadays.
If being competitive on the modern battlefield is all you care about, then yes, it's not "good" in that sense. But there are plenty of people here who consider playing out historic scenarios just as if not more fun than dogfighting in 4/5 generation fighters. Or just like to be the underdog. Or find the outmoded, clunky avionics of the 50-70s fun...

As for the new Western aircraft upsetting the balance of MP (or rather free-for-all team deathmatch games - anyone doing realistic scenarios is hardly affected by it)... as much as I would love more Eastern tech in the game, I don't think any of the new Western planes save for the Eurofighter will be such a big problem. They match the current Russian fighters quite nicely, both in terms of role and capability.

MiG-21bis : F-5E
MiG-29A : Mirage-2000C
MiG-29C : F/A-18C
Su-33 : F-14A/B
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:17 AM   #1028
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Only the Russian Mig 21 is fully modelled in that list whereas the European and American will be fully modelled soon

We need more fully modelled Russian aircraft
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:19 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by didilman View Post
Too bad im french.


What's your point? I guess we don't really get it...
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:39 AM   #1030
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@Krupi

Sure, but my point wasn't that there is enough Russian aircraft, but rather that those that are there will do fine in MP against most of the new Western aircraft.
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