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Choosing the right Aircraft


Mr.Scar

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Since this is my first post, I would like to say hello to everyone.

 

I hope this is the right place, to start this thread. If not, I am very sorry but I could not find any relevant place. As you probably realized, it will be one of those topics - which plane should i choose? However I would like to elaborate a little more in this case, so that you guys can provide me with feedback for which i kindly request. Because of this, i will try to point out some things about me and my experiences so far.

 

1. Why am I posting this, and what do I expect?

 

As an introductory part, I am not new to DCS. However I have decided to get help from You, by creating this topic. You can probably call me more of a "casual" pilot (if something like this exists...) so it means i fly time to time, jumping from one plane to another. Point is, I would like to change that. I would like to focus on one plane for a longer period of time. Learn it, fly it, gain more than a few hours of stick-time. Not that trying out new planes is and enjoying them is wrong, but i think i lack the proper focus to um... focus on one particular plane, which will suit me like a glove and I will be able to master it after a few months. A one that i will truly love to fly.

 

2. What do I like/feel is right for me in planes?

 

I would say it is balance. I like stable planes, with good electronics, which you do not fight and trim-constantly. Able knife fighters, with BVR potential, and some ground pounding possibilities. Creeping around the mountains on, but also being able to fly high and scan the horizon if needed.

 

3. What modules do I own?

 

- Flaming Cliffs planes

- Mirage 2000C

- A10C

- F18 Hornet

- Black Shark

- Pre-Ordered the F-14 Tomcat (yes, I was raised on Top Gun. Would be a sin if I had not pre-ordered it...)

 

3. What did i try so far, and have (i think at least) most experience in?

 

Well, a lot of them. The longest time i have spent in the past was on the following planes:

 

- F15C - I liked the BVR aspect quite very, but was not that good in dogfights, the Eagle bleeds speed and can be very unforgiving, requires a lot of focus when going knife to knife. Also spent a lot of time, switching constantly with radar options with my head over the radar display. I like the options of the weapon loadout.

 

- Su-25T - I enjoyed this flying tank very much. Very interactive and adrenaline pumped flying. Good stability, and maneuverability. What discouraged me, were the bombs. Felt like dropping nerf gun ammo in buckets on tanks.

 

- Mirage 2000C - Love its FBW and power. Very agile and quick. Quite nice systems, some BVR potential, great knife fighter. Lack of more AA missiles is a bit disturbing, however I can live with that.

 

- Mig29 - Before PFM, was flying it quite a lot. Sneaky style, hiding in the valleys. After PFM release, i tried it out. It is one hell of a knife fighter, but the constant trimming and the pilots struggle to fight the plane controls, can be tiresome. Also, fuel consumption can be a real SOB. Sometimes I was more worried about not to burn too much fuel, than to focus on a fight.

 

- Black Shark - handles very nicely, popping up from the hills and lurking behind them can also be fun. However the loadout... well, not that much to play with here.

 

4. What did I try a little bit, and have no opionion or simply lack experience to be talking about

 

- F18 - just a few sorties, but seems to be handling pretty well

- A10C - handles quite nice, but to be honest if it comes to specialized ground pounding i think I prefer the Black Shark. However the loadout seems fun, but still it is a ground pounder.

- Su27 - pretty much felt like flying the mig 29 pfm, but smoother and he is heavier. The missile options are great, but still... lots of triming. So i am not that convinced.

 

5. What was I thinking about?

 

- F5 Tiger - from what I have read, very nice and agile. Easy to learn. Somewhat old fashioned AA capabilities.

- Viggen - striker, seems to sound like fun. But really no big opinions also did not read too much about it.

 

6. Clickable or not clickable cockpit?

 

To be honest, both. I do not have anything against the FC options, and clickable ones.

 

7. My setup

 

Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas + PS3 Eye Camera and Open Track. Yes, I use the cheap version with IR lights. I think this might be relevant, since Open track does not appear to be that good (it is sometimes bouncy) when it comes to knife fights. And bounciness during knife fights, seriously disturbs my situational awareness. I am planning on buying a Trackir in the future, but need to save money for it.

 

Summary:

 

As you can see, I seem to lean towards modern fighters, but i might be wrong. I cannot decide what to pick/focus on. Any recommendation will be highly appreciated and I hope I described all above clearly, since DCS has changed very much, and up to date feedback is very important to me. Also, what i do know for sure is that I will jump into the F-14 when it comes out. For now however, please help me with choosing the right plane.

 

Thank you very much for all the feedback and assistance.

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I agree with the Hornet. The more I read of your opening essay, the more it screemed "Hornet" in my head. It's a great aircraft (although not my favorite) and it fits your preferences perfectly. It offers a lot of flexibility and can be used for pretty much everything. It handles outstandingly well and has FBW-autotrim. It's a modern aircraft with a lot of electronic systems and can fight very well, both against enemy air and ground.


Edited by QuiGon

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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As the others have said. Simply based on what you put in the first part of your post it's the Hornet. However Heatblur are going to be releasing the F-14 Tomcat soon and that sounds like something you will enjoy.

 

The Hornet is of course early access and you will have a long wait for the full package. I'm using that time delay in all the weapon systems to perfect A2A refuelling (nailing it now) and the type 1 and 3 recovery back to the carrier. Both challenging but incredibly rewarding when you get them right. So when the other systems kick in I can have fun incorporating them into my flights.

 

Hornet or Tomcat.

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The F18 has the capabilities that you’re looking for and if you add in the challenge of carrier landings, a wider scope than most.

 

The Viggen isn’t a fighter and it doesn’t carry the laser guided munitions of say the A10. It is however very characterful, is the only real anti-ship aircraft currently in game, and is awesome to use for a precision one pass strike against a known target.

 

If you already have the A10c and F18, go learn to fly them first as they have a LOT of depth to learn and perfect.

If you want something new, then the Viggen is a great aircraft and can do what it’s a specialist in aswell or better than anything else.

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I was also thinking Hornet. I am liking it so far and look forward to seeing it improve.

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It was like a math exercise and the result is Hornet. You're welcome.

 

PS3 Eye Camera and Open Track. Yes, I use the cheap version with IR lights. I think this might be relevant, since Open track does not appear to be that good (it is sometimes bouncy) when it comes to knife fights. And bounciness during knife fights, seriously disturbs my situational awareness. I am planning on buying a Trackir in the future, but need to save money for it.

As for this give it enough love - camera and IR-leds placement, exact measurements and config, maybe even different software - it's worth it unless you already tried everything. You can also make a thread about it to get help.

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Hornet. You already have it, it is already flyable, and it hits many of your likes about the previous aircraft. Very pilot friendly, not constantly trimming/etc, good BVR using a similar radar to the Eagle, good bomb truck for that stuff, and lots to perfect and learn with carrier ops as well as features coming down the pipe. I like the early access because it lets me focus on learning stuff in smaller bites without being inundated with features.

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I've understood the hornet is the only true multirole aircraft in current DCS? I'm looking to buy it as well but just because of the PG deal currently open and it would be my first touch into fixed wing with DCS. (And first fixed wing experience in 25+ years … MAC is still maybe a month or two away.) I'm not that interested in the carrier or ground combat aspects yet; near term it's more the air to air capability which shouldn't be too shabby on the F-18 either.

 

Does the F-18 look like it's one of the better modules, in terms of a progressing development and a good quality?

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

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Once again, all the posts above are highly appreciated. Thanks to you I have made my decision.

 

What is more, in the passed weekend i have jumped into the F-18. Here I want to thank a friend of mine, who is already quite adept with the F-18. He helped me a lot with key bindings, and expressed a lot of patience in teaching me and providing a step-by-step learning curve.

 

During training we have covered the following

 

- Takeoff (airfield)

- Landing (airfield)

- Autopilot

- Some BFM

- Bombing (CCIP and Auto aka CCRP) with MK82

- CM System

- RWR

 

What do I plan to do next? Not necessarily in that order.

- Go through Chucks guide, to gain a better understanding of the planes systems

- General familiarization with what I already know

- A2A Radar

- A2A Combat

- More A2G

- Carrier Take-off and landing

- Navigation

- Formation flying

- Stick time... Stick time... Stick time...

 

Summary:

 

I can already tell one thing. The more I fly it, the more I love it. The Hornet provides excellent balance between learning and mastering the aircraft and does not overburden the pilot which is excatly what i was looking for.

Someone also wrote here about the Open Track and PS3 Eye camre, I have tinkered around it too, before the flight. It works perfectly now, so thank you very much for advice.

Now that I made my decision, thanks to Your advice people, I can also highly recommend the F-18. If you want an all-rounder, with great flight characteristics, step by step learning which really is not that time consuming and is a lot of fun, this is really the aircraft for you as it is for me.

 

Thank you one more time people.

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I'm not that interested in the carrier or ground combat aspects yet; near term it's more the air to air capability which shouldn't be too shabby on the F-18 either.

Does the F-18 look like it's one of the better modules, in terms of a progressing development and a good quality?

Well, don't expect it to be a dominator in A2A, but it surely holds its ground.

As for the module it's ED's flagship so there are no compromises made here - absolutely top notch. Still WIP.

 

Glad you worked it out, Mr.Scar, with Open Track.

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Well, don't expect it to be a dominator in A2A, but it surely holds its ground.

As for the module it's ED's flagship so there are no compromises made here - absolutely top notch. Still WIP.

 

Glad you worked it out, Mr.Scar, with Open Track.

 

Indeed, thank you very much.

 

Btw. I just thought about it. Based on the feedback, If anyone wants to use the questions from the opening posts as a template, to be able to pinpoint/recieve feedback and recommendations. Please feel free. It might be useful for others, since the questions and descriptions gave me really precise information on what to choose.

 

Just a recommendation since I have not seen such Q/A template on the forum (or just missed it), so maybe it will help others when in doubt, and they will recieve the info needed as I did.

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You made the right choice :)

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I've understood the hornet is the only true multirole aircraft in current DCS?

Yes, it is indeed the only true modern multirole aircraft in DCS at the moment. Some of the older jets (e.g. MiG-21, F-5, F-86) might also be considered multirole capable, but only because the weapon systems were simpler at that time in history.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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Well it would feel something is amiss in multiplayer balancing if everybody is flying the latest top-of-the-line, heavy air superiority jets. Indeed the F-18 would be less specialized and more of a bread-and-butter rig when it comes to modern day A2A (similar perhaps to Mig-29 or 2000 in that role). Operated by countries like Finland, it's even the sole fighter jet around here (Cold War, we had Mig-21 and Draken, but I guess the nation nowadays feels less of a need to kiss up both directions of the compass). Then again I don't have much clue on the MP scene in DCS, just hear that it's not that great (I'm used to top-of-the-line PvP multiplayer games). And I wouldn't expect to hold my own against players with thousands of flight hours, much of that in MP, anyway :D

 

Coming from ED the F-18 indeed must be a fairly safe bet in the long run. The more stable (in terms of software maturity) survey level aircraft from Flaming Cliffs/Modern Air Combat series might have a bit fewer bumps along the way. Also the F-14 should be one of the better quality modules coming from Heatblur, but the F-18 will have at least 6 months of advantage in the development life cycle and maturity over the F-14. Still I've been thinking a bit … might end up picking up the F-14 from a sale, esp. if they for some weird reason bundle it up with the Syria or Afghanistan maps (great interest for helicopter pilots, I guess the F-14 obviously is a more maritime proposal though) - in gaming terms it's still an expensive purchase.

 

What has the F-14 going for it? For starters, the avionics of the F-18 may feel a bit complex and overwhelming for a beginner, once all the systems have been implemented down the road. I had my first false start at DCS years ago, with the Ka-50, and it was a bit my feeling that it was indeed too much at one time. Coming back to the Gazelle it's been a bit of an exhilarating experience - easy to fly since helicopters have been my platform of choice for 30 years - but the weapon systems are like braindead simple (in DCS terms!), yet quite varied and suited for very different roles.

 

And the personality! F-14 is a bit of a big, lumbering beast compared to modern, agile jet fighters. Without fly-by-wire it's also a bit retro, and comes from the era when the opponent was thought to be heavy strategic bombers (1960's) and not light strike aircraft like the many multirole fighters are themselves (1980's). It even feels a bit like a placeholder for the Mig-25 & Mig-31 which sadly don't seem to even be in the roadmap. Not to mention the variable swept wing which is likely to be unique in DCS for years to come.

 

It could just generally be that beginners in DCS will have more fun with the older aircraft. The avionics are much more simple, so if you just can figure out how to navigate, you could more concentrate on the flying and the fighting instead of learning the complex and numerous radar, targeting and autopilot modes etc. That pretty much was my experience with helicopter sims in the 1990s, HIND and Longbow 2 - I found out I pretty much prefer it up close and personal with rockets and lots of maneuvering over just blips on the radar. The more avionics you add the thicker the manuals get, and you have to read them.

 

Not saying that F-14 is the best pick in this regard. It's a long range interceptor and what I gather the radar was very advanced for its time. But all the older A2A choices seem to be included in the upcoming MAC module or are roadmap items only at this point. Just when I now think of it... it could be an intriguing aircraft to fly.

 

Also of interest to me is the stronger A2A profile of the Tomcat (although it has the ground attack capability, never really thought of it as one of the attack craft), and that initially it's more likely to be rolled as a REDFOR aircraft in multiplayer - just because they are not making any Russian fighters at the study level.

Edit: Mig-23 is on the roadmap so the F-14 is not the only variable wing option. It's probably way more fun though; the Mig-23 wouldn't be my first choice for air combat, the performance is possibly somewhat better for ground attack.

 

Yes, it is indeed the only true modern multirole aircraft in DCS at the moment. Some of the older jets (e.g. MiG-21, F-5, F-86) might also be considered multirole capable, but only because the weapon systems were simpler at that time in history.

 

It's a bit funny since back in the day, planes like Mig-29, the 2000, and Viggen were thought of as multirole fighters, the name of JAS Viggen even explicitly states that it's for the three main branches of the jet air arm (the third one being reconnaissance). Perhaps ED didn't implement them as such, though some players claim that the ground attack capabilities of 2000 are grossly underestimated by the community.


Edited by Varis

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

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It's a bit funny since back in the day, planes like Mig-29, the 2000, and Viggen were thought of as multirole fighters, the name of JAS Viggen even explicitly states that it's for the three main branches of the jet air arm (the third one being reconnaissance). Perhaps ED didn't implement them as such, though some players claim that the ground attack capabilities of 2000 are grossly underestimated by the community.

The keyword in my comment was "true multirole aircraft".

 

The MiG-29 is indeed a true multirole aircraft IRL, but I don't know about it in DCS because it's just an FC3 aircraft which I don't fly.

 

The Mirage 2000C isn't really a multirole aircraft as its A-G capabilities are somewhat limited. That's the reason why there is a dedicated A-G variant IRL, the Mirage 2000D.

 

It's similar with the Viggen. Their aircraft itself is not really a multirole aircraft, but it has different variants for the different roles: The JA37 is a fighter with very limited A-G capabilities and the AJ37 is a a striker with very limited A-A capabilities.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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For me,

 

it is definetly L-39C/ZA with Kursant Campaign. It opened quite a lot of new ways for me. In VR, it is absolutely brutal feeling. I will take it after from start with mig 15 to last gen.

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Not to mention the variable swept wing which is likely to be unique in DCS for years to come.

 

[...]

Edit: Mig-23 is on the roadmap so the F-14 is not the only variable wing option. It's probably way more fun though; the Mig-23 wouldn't be my first choice for air combat, the performance is possibly somewhat better for ground attack.

 

Well you forgot the Tornado IDS Heatblur is going to do after the 'cat rainbowdashwink.png

Obvious obviousness is obvious (swing wing, 2 seater, dedicated AI for 2nd guy in the 'pit, thrust reverser, AG radar, terrain avoidance mode, proper submunitions dispensing, Recce tech like signal recording jammer pods and TARPS, anti ship missiles, road base tech) salute.png

 

[...] though some players claim that the ground attack capabilities of 2000 are grossly underestimated by the community.

 

Well at the moment the Mirage is definately more capable than the Hornet in some regards. It has guns that hit at slant ranges greater than a knife's length, and they're packing 30mm of punch. And you can throw LGBs with some buddy lasing twilightsmile.png

 

But in general to the OP, I'd also recommend getting stick time in the Hornet and then the Tomcat, eventually do the same with the Mirage at some point and later go buy the Viggen and the Harrier if you want some better AG stuff without going as slow as an A-10 or Ka-50 rainbowdashwink.png


Edited by Eldur

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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