(Slow Speed Practice) Onspeed AOA Video - Getting ready for Case 1 Landings

There is still some confusion about the F-18 flight model and how it configures for landing. The F/A-18 will feel very odd and alien to most sim pilots and to professional IRL pilots.

WHY?

The NAVY pilots fly an on speed AOA approach for the hook to deck angle to land on the aircraft carrier and for safety reason. It's also the best wing coefficient of lift AOA angle, that's exactly why you use power (without pitching the aircraft) to climb and descend the aircraft, if you pitch the nose you will create more drag and slow the aircraft even more and will not be max performing the aircraft.

Trim and stay on speed AOA and use more or less power to climb and descend.

Controlling speed with the stick and rate of descent with the throttle

As you slow down using the Air-brake, hold the nose level, when the speed gets to 250 Kts drop and gear and select flaps full, then when close to 150 kts, start to apply more power so you can hold the aircraft level and keep the speed to around 140 with a nice amount of power (You are now very close to the aircraft stall margin) so watch the speed and NO pitching for height or you will slow down more (BAD). Now apply trim until you can release the pressure your holding, until your hands off in the pitch and now control climb and descend rate using your throttle only.

AOA, on speed , and various other crazy ideas from a former IRL USN pilot. His YT channel

DCS - INSTANT ACTION - Caucasus Map - Airfield landing mission

Use this mission shown below to practice just flying around with on speed AOA so you get a good feel for it, before you start doing the high pressure Case 1 landings.

To land on a runway with around 3 degree glide slope, use your TACAN for distance and be at 1500 feet at 5 miles level and onspeed AOA or 3000 feet at 10 miles, before coming down the glide slope GS. Example, I was playing around here testing the throttle when landing in this video.

Also, If you want a 3 degree glide slope take your air speed multiply it by 10 and dived that number by 2. That will give you the sink rate you need for a 3 degree glide slope. For example 135 knots * 10 = 1350 / 2 = 675. So at 135 knots you should be looking for a sink rate of -675 to be on a 3 degree glide slope.

Just have some fun with without the pressure of landing, so you get a good feeling for it and how she handles when setup for On Speed AOA.

You have now adjusted for onspeed AOA and this has also automatically worked out your landing speed based on your weight for this flight using no weight calculations. USN Pilots use a chart only to check the AOA is working correctly. Once the AOA is correct, you keep it correct throughout the pattern, there is no need to even check your speed now, as it will always be correct because it is based off your onspeed AOA being held correctly.

This is the chart USN pilots roughly check the speed should be when flying on speed AOA in LEVEL flight. The aircraft will fly in level flight until out of jet fuel.

You can check your weight by going to the Check list page on the DDI display, when practicing, keep your weight below 33,000 pounds.

Documentation

CASE 1 Approach Chart

CASE 3 CV-1 Approach chart

Jabbers - DCS World - F/A-18 - Case I Carrier Recovery Tutorial

Matt Wagner - DCS: F/A-18C Hornet - Episode 6: VFR Airfield Landing

Matt Wagner - DCS: F/A-18C Hornet - Episode 9: CASE I Carrier Landing

Wags has many videos about the Hornet

Hook to ramp refers to the distance from the tip of the hook to aft section of the carrier runway.

Read about Hook to ramp in Curly's post HERE

Pitch for AOA and throttle for glide slope is also know as the backside technique. It predates fly by wire control systems. The backside technique is first recommend by the Naval Safety Center in June of 1959. NASA had looked into earlier of that year. Read all about backside technique with links to documents in Curly's post HERE and another one HERE.

Flying Aspen's Angle of Attack System Video

Great video for all you general aviation pilots, as he talks a little about the NAVY aircraft. This is an add on AOA indicator for general aviation aircraft (GA). AOA indicators are standard equipment on ALL NAVY aircraft for landing on the Carrier. They are not standard for general aviation aircraft (GA).

That's a great video, thanks for doing it. I've been struggling to find that perfect trim and most of the videos don't seem to include the control inputs.

Good post :thumbup:

That's a great video, thanks for doing it. I've been struggling to find that perfect trim and most of the videos don't seem to include the control inputs.

Here is an outstanding video made by an enthusiast about the carrier pattern.

 

Really great and thorough but with some much needed corrections. I highly recommend the video because it's a complete picture on carrier ops from the training perspective. Below are my corrections for the video.

_____________________________________________________

"I know this is very late feedback, good presentation but a couple of corrections for you. Never correct a high or low position with the stick, always with the power. You use the stick to correct alignment to centerline and maintaining the proper AOA.

 

"At the 45" is not past the carrier wake it's before it (edit: on it or slightly before it). The 45 position is halfway between the 90 and rolling out on the groove. Rolling out on the groove is just that rolling out on the groove all lined up with the centerline.

 

The reason why you said it was hard to see the ball initially when talking about your "starting the groove position" slide is because based on your position you were really long in the groove. When you roll out in the groove you are actually pretty close to the carrier and it shouldn't be hard to see the meatball assuming you are at the proper glideslope position. If you are hitting your numbers you should clearly see a center ball when when leveling your wings at the start of the groove.

 

You were starting your turn at the abeam way too late, you need to start that turn before you pass the fantail. This will have you much closer to the carrier on roll out. A better reference for the abeam is when you can see the hangar deck opening clear through and are lined up with it, start the turn right then do not go past the ship before starting the turn.

 

 

You should not be referencing the wake at all. The last reference checkpoint is the 45. If that wake reference call is in natops then that's news to me, since it's only an unnecessary distraction for the pilot. Keep in mind my flying days were twenty years ago.

 

The position calls are only for training by the way, by the time you are flying the hornet those comms are no longer necessary. The only call you make is your ball call. Typically the LSO says nothing other than acknowledge your ball call with lights or by voice so you intialize comms with your ball call. Oh and its not "4 decimal 2" it's "4 point 2".

 

You do not wait until you are a mile past the carrier to start the break turn, the break turn starts about 2 seconds after passing the bow. The mile thing might be a training thing but if that was practiced in fleet ops it would stretch out the carrier pattern and really screw things up.

 

Oh and one last thing, if you really want to do it like in real life make sure you are not looking at the carrier deck when the meat ball is in sight, you only make very quick glances at the centerline to make sure you are lined up with it but 95 percent of the time you are looking at the meatball and scanning your AOA indicator and that's it. If you are getting in the habit at staring at the deck and using the velocity vector to point yourself to the deck then you are doing it wrong."

Once you have the gear and full flaps down, you can see on the control inputs that little T mark down on the pitch ladder, that's where my trim is to keep the onspeed AOA at this weight. This will always change depending on fuel and weapon loadouts. You can dump fuel and weapons if needed. Keep her under 33,000 pounds for carrier landings.

You can check your weights on the check list page of the DDI display.

Fuel dumping before starting the carrier approach

.

(from my other post)

" Don't flare don't miss. Do not take off power.

If anything pulse that reduction of power that u used to steer down the glide slope, fly the aircraft not the cable. Better hit cable 5 or do a touch (and miss) and go around than any chance of hitting the stern (there is perhaps even a lee effect coded when too low behind the stern of the carrier).

What I noticed on actual F18 youtube footage is that the pilot (a pilot? perhaps this differs per squadron and AC type) when wheels touching the deck, actually smashes full throttle,

in disregard whether they caught a cable or not (they did of course).

There is no decision time for a full throttle calamity, so it appears they build the cables capable to stop the aircraft when at full throttle, and when a cable snaps (or a hook brakes? does that ever happen? or whatever), that's how the pilot has the chance to escape.

"

This is a fantastic post David. Thanks. I wish we could sticky this.

Thanks David, this post is a thing of beauty. I'll have to stay up after midnight to watch the video - I live way past the edge of Internet Frontier.

Another quick video of almost having an inflight Engagement.:cry:

This shows just how important it is to STAY at the correct on speed AOA, even if you "might" bolter and return into the pattern. This would of been real bad if I had pitch up here and caught the wire.

This really caught me by surprise, I was sure I was going to be a bolter on this one....

This is what it looks like IRL when the wheels are just off the ground.

Thank for your explanation, but how I can set the trim without engage the override ?

Thank for your explanation, but how I can set the trim without engage the override ?

I have found...work only gear down :music_whistling::music_whistling::music_whistling:

Gear First or Flaps First

All posts state lower gear and set flpas to full at 140. Old habits die hard. Ive been lowering flaps first and get a pitch up of 25 degrees that forward stick cannot counter. Assume gear should be first then flaps?

All posts state lower gear and set flpas to full at 140. Old habits die hard. Ive been lowering flaps first and get a pitch up of 25 degrees that forward stick cannot counter. Assume gear should be first then flaps?

I generally hit the gear then the flaps button, it's only a second or two apart when flying the case 1, gear is first tho.

It doesn't matter if your flying a pattern or coming straight in. You drop the gear and flaps at 250 kts and stop the speed from droping when getting around 140 kts and at the same time your trimming for on speed AOA

Did you watch the video in the first post? Have Fun and try this and get the feel for it without landing. Try flying around in level flight and making some turns without using pitch.

Drop the gear and flaps like in this pattern picture, the speed will drop fast, so get ready to bring the power back on.

Sweet!! Here is mine. I don;t know why it won't work so here is the URL

Just put the YouTube code between the YouTube tags aHVSC5JNUh4

Sweet!! Here is mine. I don;t know why it won't work so here is the URL

 

 

 

 

Not to step on your toes, but this recovery was far from perfect. Coming in too low all the way in (extremely dangerous)

Ok, so there's lots of info on how to maintain AOA and do so in level Flight, BUT...

Eventually you have to point the nose toward the runway / deck.

So do you let the nose sag by rolling off the power a little and then arrest it back on AOA with only power, or do you trim it down while maintaining the proper VV / Indexer relationship?

Ok, so there's lots of info on how to maintain AOA and do so in level Flight, BUT...

 

Eventually you have to point the nose toward the runway / deck.

 

So do you let the nose sag by rolling off the power a little and then arrest it back on AOA with only power, or do you trim it down while maintaining the proper VV / Indexer relationship?

The navy guy's call it energizing the ball, you should be a little high, half ball etc into the groove and come wings level. What they mean by this and the way I see it, it's like your trying to bounce the ball off the center line with the throttle as your coming down the glide slope so you can feel the aircraft and know where it's at so yo u can settle it center when you hit the flight deck, that center ball on touch down will give you the proper 3 wire.

The only thing you are concerned about is:

Ball / On speed AOA / Lineup

Ball controlled with the Throttle / On speed (pitch) / Lineup (bank)

Banking will also affect your lift, so you may need even more throttle while banking.

That's the scan after rolling into the groove, nothing else matters from then on.

If you have trimmed correctly on the downwind (Wings level and level flight) you don't want to re-trim. This is so when you roll out wings level the aircraft will re-seek the condition all by itself, you will need to help it in pitch only if turbulence is affecting the aircraft's ability to re-settle the AOA.

Also you will get graded down for not being on speed AOA, if you take a look at your front landing gear you will see the AOA repeater that the LSO's can see what your doing. Always try and stay on speed AOA. If you trim well downwind (really get it centered) you should be good when roll out. then pump that throttle, don't let the throttle go down less than 40%, it take's time to spool, keep the power on between 40% and 90%

There is no perfect throttle setting, you will be moving the throttle constantly between 40% and 90%. If you need burner in the groove you can, this will probably end in a wave off.

I have added this video below to the first page with all the other consolidated information about on speed AOA and Hook to ramp angle. If you are still struggling with how or why you trim for on speed AOA in USN aircraft, watch this is a very good video done by a former USN pilot.

Another quick video of almost having an inflight Engagement.:cry:

 

This shows just how important it is to STAY at the correct on speed AOA, even if you "might" bolter and return into the pattern. This would of been real bad if I had pitch up here and caught the wire.

 

This really caught me by surprise, I was sure I was going to be a bolter on this one....

 

 

This is what it looks like IRL when the wheels are just off the ground.

 

How are you able to watch your replays? Mine are always desynch when it comes using the CVN-74 :(

How are you able to watch your replays? Mine are always desynch when it comes using the CVN-74 :(

LOL, It took about three playthroughs of the same track to get the correct shot....;)

How are you able to watch your replays? Mine are always desynch when it comes using the CVN-74 :(

Fly from land, and only do touch and goes on the carrier, with a maximum of one actual trap. If your jet stops at all on a moving carrier, the track will desync.

LOL, It took about three playthroughs of the same track to get the correct shot....;)

Sounds like more gambling than going to Vegas :P Thanks i'll try one and see.

Fly from land, and only do touch and goes on the carrier, with a maximum of one actual trap. If your jet stops at all on a moving carrier, the track will desync.

Got to say so far all tracks i tried were from starting on the carrier.

Great thread OP! very helpful!

There are 2 things I have been struggling with the past month for case 1 ( I will address 1 for the moment). I pass to the right side of the ship @ 800' at 350 kts, bringing the carrier down the left rail of my canopy. I go into the break with speed break full, power to idle and maintain (try too) 3.5 G's halfway through the break, gear and flaps down @ 250 kts. by the time I am about halfway through this break, I have turned too close to the carrier, usually I am about .8 miles abeam. I have watched all the tutorials over the months many times, I have read to maintain the 1% G up to halfway through the break, but its always too tight? At about halfway through the brak I am at about 250kts and dropping gear and flaps but then I try to level out a bit to get further away to target 1.2 kts abeam. It doesn't work for me or make sense to maintain 3.5 G when its too tight of a turn when trying to maintain that G. Now I know the response is likely to be something like " dont maintain so long" or " dont try to hold it halfway". I get it, that makes sense I suppose, so what is actually advised? I have seen NOTHING on YouTube or the forums to contradict what has been fairly consistent as far as instructions go, to maintain halfway thru the break? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.