DCS: Me 262 Discussion (Development on hold currently)

It should als be possible to adjust the guns in term of horizontal and vertical convergence in the 262. Now that isnt possible with a prop mounted gun, so shells will quickly fall below the nose at high ark trajectories. The MK108 is a really a much better fit in 262 than in the 109 as you said.

Unfortunately ED does not allow conversion setting for WW2 birds as far as I know so I wouldn't look forwar to it.

From what I remember Bf-109 pilots reported not only vertical but also horizontal spread and that the plane was shaking throwing the aim off when firing the MK108 gun. It was seen practicly useless in fighter vs fighter engagement and some preferred sticking with the higher velocity MG151. That's only from pilot interviews though.

but.. you want throttle governor to be standard just because you can't enable an assist? how is it any different?

Because the throttle governor was on real Me 262s, and a simplified-physics game-mode assist wasn't. It's like the difference between the K-14 gunsight, and the game-overlay lead-PIPs in War Thunder's arcade mode. The ultimate effect is similar (an aid which shows you where the lead-point is), but--to a hardcore simmer--the former is completely acceptable, because it's the real way of doing it, while the latter is completely unacceptable, because it wasn't ever like that in the real airplane. Same goes for the throttle situation.

Please note that I'm not requesting that Yo-Yo change the version just for my shoddy joystick throttle-slider, mind you--he's got enough on his plate already, I'm sure. I'm just wondering which version we're going to get, and hoping its the one with the better throttle.

Unfortunately ED does not allow conversion setting for WW2 birds as far as I know so I wouldn't look forwar to it.

 

From what I remember Bf-109 pilots reported not only vertical but also horizontal spread and that the plane was shaking throwing the aim off when firing the MK108 gun. It was seen practicly useless in fighter vs fighter engagement and some preferred sticking with the higher velocity MG151. That's only from pilot interviews though.

Sadly we cant adjust convergence in DCS, its a good feature in CloD. The Dora and Mustang at least have hardcoded convergence though, dont they? I think the 109 as well for the MGs. But I was talking mainly about real life. : )

Contrary to common believe the 108 has comparatively moderate recoil. The rounds were ignited before the slide had completely moved forward, thus absorbing much of the recoil energy produced instantly through inertia. This is also the reason why the gun could never be harmonized although electrically ignited. The short barrel had small oscillations and therefore bullet spread was never as high as for the long barrel, high velocity MG151.

It is a good aircraft cannon but the low velocity and thus high bullet drop made it somewhat useless in deflection shooting. There was also a tendency to jam under high G loads, which was a problem for many guns/ canons at the time actually.

It is a good aircraft cannon but the low velocity and thus high bullet drop made it somewhat useless in deflection shooting. There was also a tendency to jam under high G loads, which was a problem for many guns/ canons at the time actually.

This is what I remember from interviews I used to see on TV and some books I had read about the 108. It wasn't so much that it had problems with recoil as it was the velocity and drop made it effectively useless in trying to hit small, moving targets. There were some good stories about lucky hits but generally they just didn't bother unless it was the intended type of target (bombers for example) or if they were really lucky and caught another fighter with it's pants down so to speak. And you are correct, it would jam under high g-loads, what would happen is that the belts would rip.

41m drop in the first 1,000m alone is quite an obstacle especially combined with the shell's low speed going against another fighter moving quickly and maneuvering. If I remember correctly the entire force of recoil was absorbed by the bolt moving backward against buffering springs. There would be recoil but it wasn't the primary issue with using it in a dogfight and was quite tame given it's size.

Because the throttle governor was on real Me 262s, and a simplified-physics game-mode assist wasn't. It's like the difference between the K-14 gunsight, and the game-overlay lead-PIPs in War Thunder's arcade mode. The ultimate effect is similar (an aid which shows you where the lead-point is), but--to a hardcore simmer--the former is completely acceptable, because it's the real way of doing it, while the latter is completely unacceptable, because it wasn't ever like that in the real airplane. Same goes for the throttle situation.

 

Please note that I'm not requesting that Yo-Yo change the version just for my shoddy joystick throttle-slider, mind you--he's got enough on his plate already, I'm sure. I'm just wondering which version we're going to get, and hoping its the one with the better throttle.

Where did you hear about the throttle governor? I'm interested

adding this fanclub, me262 is my favorite one.

ED will use the data of Flugmuseum Messerschmitt for Me262?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwIr5Gn-Tys34XXT33AONhQ

It seems like very great.

... it would not make too much sense to do so.

The tango-tango is a rebuild and especially with the different jet engine in no way comparable with the historic 262.

Performance data will differ enormously from the original and the same goes for procedures.

Yeah my feelings as well fella, its original or nothing if you ask me.

I'm sure there is enought documentation avaliabel to create it without any original flying.

Either way it probably wouldn't hurt to get in touch with sufisticated replica pilots as the ones from the Messerschmitt Stiftung, which probably also has tons of material and knowledge about the historical one to offer.

From what I remember it was mainly the 109 pilots who complained about the Mk108 ballistics. Considering the much higher speed and airframe ruggedness of the 262 they could actually be somewhat more effective.

 

R4M would be nice indeed even though we got no B-17s to shoot at (yet).

What would the airframe ruggedness do to affect the ballistics? I'd imagine it would just require less maintenance after firing the gun.

Thanks for sharing. Dang, I gotta get over there sometime... soon :smilewink:

I would love this as a flyable, there should be enough evidence available for production and I'm sure one of the replica owners would gladly share the all important technical details (as it's generally impossible to get talented people with that kind of passion to shut up about their particular project). As VEAO are doing the Meteor, having the first operational Axis jet fighter would be a dream, this is something DCS really needs.

I would love this as a flyable, there should be enough evidence available for production and I'm sure one of the replica owners would gladly share the all important technical details (as it's generally impossible to get talented people with that kind of passion to shut up about their particular project). As VEAO are doing the Meteor, having the first operational Axis jet fighter would be a dream, this is something DCS really needs.

The 262 is planned as a full fidelity module. So far ED have released about 1 WW2 module per year and I think the original plan was to have the thunderbolt out next, however there seems to be some problems with getting enough detailed information on the thunderbolt so I am not sure which module ED will prioritise next, it could be the 262....

We just got a new allied plane, 262 next! Then I will truly have no life.

We just got a new allied plane, 262 next! Then I will truly have no life.

I think P-47 would be a better asset for our game. Way more to do with it and not to mention, most common airplane of the US Army Airforce in europe, while 262 made very little impact.

I think P-47 would be a better asset for our game. Way more to do with it and not to mention, most common airplane of the US Army Airforce in europe, while 262 made very little impact.

Oh come on solty play fair the Germans don't have a fast late war aircraft currently.... Hmmm hang on a sec! :music_whistling::doh:

Hopefully P-47 is next however I don't think it will have such a big impact if sorties online are still at roof top level.

That said it will probably be the best diver and with its radial engine it can take an absolute beating and get home.

Oh come on solty play fair the Germans don't have a fast late war aircraft currently.... Hmmm hang on a sec! :music_whistling::doh:

 

Hopefully P-47 is next however I don't think it will have such a big impact if sorties online are still at roof top level.

 

That said it will probably be the best diver and with its radial engine it can take an absolute beating and get home.

My understanding is the Jug biggest impact was CAS, That would be fair to think yes most will be at trees tops :thumbup:

From the Point of Dogfighting the 262 is the most boring Plane to score Kills, untouchable when you flying right like Super Dora...

Looking foward to the 262 more from technical Side as first operational Jet Fighter and Mission to intercept B-17 then rather going to Dogfight with a 262. (Hopefully there is a Normandy Map then)

But also agree P-47 should be coming first, incredible Fighter-Bomber with his Payload realy looking foward as dogfighter also limited (not metioned Spotting)

My understanding is the Jug biggest impact was CAS, That would be fair to think yes most will be at trees tops :thumbup:

Yes and no :) So the P-47 was used extensively for CAS operations, and it proved to be very good at it. However, this wasn't because it was ineffective as an air-superiority fighter. Before the US introduced the P-51 most of the escort work was done by the P-47 (the B/C razorbacks) and it proved to work well as a fighter, especially at high altitude. In some ways you could argue that by the time the P-51 came to Europe in serious numbers the air war was already almost over, won largely by the P-47. However, the P-47 lacked the range to escort the bombers all the way into Germany.

The P-51 wasn't necessarily more effective as a fighter (that's highly debatable), what wasn't debatable is that it had the legs to take the bombers all the way to deepest Germany, and the P-47 didn't.

The other thing that lead to the P-47 being mostly used for CAS work is that it was better suited to that than the P-51. The radial engine and general ruggedness of the P-47 meant it could take ground fire and still get home. If a P-51 got even a tiny hole in the radiator the engine would generally overheat and die before the plane could make it back.

None of these things are typically much of a consideration on a typical DCS mission, and so I would expect to see the P-47 used both as a fighter and as a ground attack plane, much as the P-51 is. As someone who loves BnZ planes I can definitely say that I'll be flying it purely as a fighter :)

Whether it proves to be good as a fighter is going to depend a lot on what happens with the 50 cals. The BnZ style really requires that brief snapshots have a high lethality, and currently this is just not true of the 50 cals. At the moment even getting many hits from long bursts of 6 50 cals is rarely enough to down an enemy plane. I'm very much hoping that the new damage model will see a boost for the 50 cals, it would greatly improve the lot of the US planes (and I'm a 50/50 allied/axis pilot).

Back to the topic at hand, the Me-262. Yes I agree, it'd be good to get the P-47 first. As I've said before, I don't think the Me262 should ever really be allowed on public servers. It would just be totally dominant. As MAD-MM says if you fly it right it'd be an untouchable Super Dora ... and the Dora is already very tough to kill if flown well.

p47 is the the A10c of ww2 ugly not many like her but very effective at everything it did. Really hope the p47 is coming aswell as the me262. Just saw a P-47d in person at the WW2 air museum in Colorado springs, very impressive! P-47 is my number one wish

p47 is the the A10c of ww2 ugly not many like her but very effective at everything it did. Really hope the p47 is coming aswell as the me262. Just saw a P-47d in person at the WW2 air museum in Colorado springs, very impressive! P-47 is my number one wish

Well, no. A-10 is closer to a Ju-87 or Hs129 than a Thunderbolt.

P-47 was not only a good ground pounder, it was a high altitude fighter capable of long escort flights and one of the fastest planes at altitude with great air to air armament of its time. The highest scoring aces like Francis Gaby Gabreski, were flying the Thundebolt. I would say the Jug accomplished way more than the Hog.

Also it is not ugly.:pilotfly: