Did hornet pilots deal with this too?

I find doubtful that the hornet didnt have a hotas button for waypoint designate and that they had to look down and use the ampcd or ddis.

This is mainly bad when using mavericks at the moment, as in order to point the seeker to a waypoint (most common practice in real combat as described in the fighter pilot podcast) we have to designate the waypoint and then undesignate it to be able to slew the mav.

Additionally (and Im sure this is a bug) when we undesignate we lose the WYPT option boxed so we dont know range anymore until boxing again that button. This is a huge drawback.

I trully dont think the hornet relied so much in ddis and ampcd buttons to accomplish tasks.

What do others think about this?

If it's not in the NATOPS it's not a feature of our Hornet, doesn't really matter what you "think" is good design or not :pilotfly:

also extremely high likelihood you're not operating in a method that even remotely resembles irl operations and so things won't seem to make sense given the differing workloads

design choices are tailored to fit an established operational culture, it's not going to make sense unless you inherit that same culture.

an example would be the "weird misaligned russian landing lights"

From what I've read, our Hornet indeed works as intended. The HOTAS integration in the F-18 isn't nearly as good as in the A-10C or F-16.

But in the future, we won't have to rely on the AMPCD for target designation, we'll be able to do that with the TGP, JHMCS or AG Radar.

You are incorrect on all points from what I have been told.

Ouch, ok got it.

If it's not in the NATOPS it's not a feature of our Hornet, doesn't really matter what you "think" is good design or not :pilotfly:

I know it doesnt matter what I think, I was just trying to see what others think as well and have a conversation. I know im new to the forums but there was no need to be so rude.

From what I've read, our Hornet indeed works as intended. The HOTAS integration in the F-18 isn't nearly as good as in the A-10C or F-16.

But in the future, we won't have to rely on the AMPCD for target designation, we'll be able to do that with the TGP, JHMCS or AG Radar.

But we will still need to press it to point the TGP.

I thought perhaps as development evolved ED implemented something about this matter that wasnt done before due to development and project management.

There are tons (not yet implemented) of hotas functions when the HSI is selected as "sensor of interest" and perhaps one of them was WPDSG.

Obviously this thread wasnt welcome, so please feel free to delete.

From what I've read, our Hornet indeed works as intended. The HOTAS integration in the F-18 isn't nearly as good as in the A-10C or F-16.

But in the future, we won't have to rely on the AMPCD for target designation, we'll be able to do that with the TGP, JHMCS or AG Radar.

Man when I can look at something with the JHMCS and designate it as a tgt... It's a wrap. I love the hog but that will probably be the nail in the coffin.

My bad homie, it's just kind of a recurring theme that people believe they know more about how the plane should work than all the developers and subject matter experts, nothing personal at all.

My bad homie, it's just kind of a recurring theme that people believe they know more about how the plane should work than all the developers and subject matter experts, nothing personal at all.

:thumbup:

Sure I wasnt trying to, love DCS and ED. Just wanting to know more about this feeling I had about the HOTAS. I just cant accept that slaving something to a waypoint isnt possible through hotas, thats all. Just a feeling.

Man when I can look at something with the JHMCS and designate it as a tgt... It's a wrap. I love the hog but that will probably be the nail in the coffin.

This and "mark" function. I think we'd be able to mark 4 points (?) and have them as waypoints, targets, coordinates to relay to others... If you're into CAS it's a great tool.

There are tons (not yet implemented) of hotas functions when the HSI is selected as "sensor of interest" and perhaps one of them was WPDSG.

 

Obviously this thread wasnt welcome, so please feel free to delete.

Hey now, this thread got a little heated, but your question is not unreasonable at all. Please don't let this discourage you from posting and asking questions in the future.

This and "mark" function. I think we'd be able to mark 4 points (?) and have them as waypoints, targets, coordinates to relay to others... If you're into CAS it's a great tool.

It's more than four, that was just a limitation in that other sim it seems - it's a lot more in the real aircraft.

It's more than four, that was just a limitation in that other sim it seems - it's a lot more in the real aircraft.

cool:D

It's more than four, that was just a limitation in that other sim it seems - it's a lot more in the real aircraft.

9 actually

Man when I can look at something with the JHMCS and designate it as a tgt... It's a wrap. I love the hog but that will probably be the nail in the coffin.

I do think the Hornet does have some HOTAS functionality we're missing at the moment, but yeah, it's definitely not the same as the F-16 and A-10. There's still quite a bit of DDI/AMPCD button mashing required for things - it's a completely different aircraft design.

I do think the Hornet does have some HOTAS functionality we're missing at the moment, but yeah, it's definitely not the same as the F-16 and A-10. There's still quite a bit of DDI/AMPCD button mashing required for things - it's a completely different aircraft design.

as are F16 and A10 totally different aircraft.

But comparatively the the way F18's requires the extra ( and in some cases unnecessary) button mashing of DDI;s, its like some the designers were a bunch of traditionalists that didn't embrace HOTAS philosophy fully, which is otherwise quite polar to the rest of the aspects of the Hornet which were innovative for their time.

But hey at least that means for certain virtual pilits the Hornets easier to map all controls for those who have simpler HOTAS's with less buttons ( or lack thereoff).

Will it be possible to set multiple mark points and then use said mark points for JDAM/JSOW? Allowing you to ripple off bombs each going to their own mark point?

Will it be possible to set multiple mark points and then use said mark points for JDAM/JSOW? Allowing you to ripple off bombs each going to their own mark point?

If you map two of the AMPCD buttons to your hotas you'll be able to ripple all 8 in a few seconds at 8 different markpoints - just map WPDSG and the button to advance waypoint, then you pickle, advance, WPDSG, pickle (and repeat until empty).

I do think the Hornet does have some HOTAS functionality we're missing at the moment

Yeah, we can't go out of AACQ with Castle Right for example. Wags described that in his Academic Series, but it doesn't work.

The whole thread reminds me of modal dialogues in Microsoft software. Literally everybody hates them, but they're there, because of design choice. Bad design choice. Or Google's common practice of "Hey, we have a feature here that really makes using our site comfortable, let's remove it and make sure noone is able to replicate it with some clever scripting via browser addons". If they're wrong with their decisions, they just don't care...

And I bet MDD never had in mind that some day some people would fly their assets on a PC with VR, struggling to hit the right OSB fast enough with a touch controller or mouse blind folded. This is so much easier IRL I can only imagine. So this looks like bad usability to us, but actually isn't that much in the real thing.

But I'll never get used to the modals...

I think this is way more an issue in DCS (or any flight sim) than in reality, in reality this is easy to press a button in front of you while in DCS for the least advanced hardware it require you to :

-Release Joystick.

-Use keyboard to move view down and probably also zoom in.

-Grab the mouse and try to aim at this little box on your screen and click it (and if you have pilot head movement affect by Gs option enabled it is even more tricky).

-Reset your view and the zoom.

-Grab your joystick back.

With a more advanced Joystick with more buttons you can map camera controls to it and you can then keep your hand on the stick while looking down/up, but this is still an added step and you still have to zoom and use the mouse.

The Track IR version might be better, but the way TIR move in a multiplied angle as your real head, it move around a lot and make it hard to press the button, but at least you can lean forward which thanks to the exaggerate movement of TIR make you close to the screen and you don't need to zoom anymore, but the camera is still somewhat wobbly because of TIR precision and your small head movement and you still need to click it with your mouse.

If you use a VR headset well this is better since the movement are 1:1 and this feel more natural to look at stuff, but the button is still small (we still need to use zoom to see the displays unlike with TIR except if you literally walk forward, leaning isn't enough) but this is easier to click on with your mouse than with TIR, tho leaving your hand from the joystick to the mouse to simulate your hand moving in the cockpit is still far from the real thing.

The best experience would be with VR glove or VR hands detection, and even here you still have the problem of displays visibility and small buttons which require you to zoom in, coupled with glove which wouldn't be as precise and intuitive (also having some delay making aiming with the finger a little bit harder) as your hand.

So the real way to know what this is really for the pilot to click this button would be to have a home cockpit with the buttons and working display at the same place as the real one, and even if you have a little advantage over the real pilot because you aren't forced to wear the gloves and you are not subject to the aircraft movement, there is still, as probad said, the fact that real life operation are different, they tend to have less actions, in real life a pilot can spend a long time just flying and he have a lot of time preparing things, things happen in a certain pace, while in DCS peoples haven't that much time available and it tend to have more action accelerating the pace, which make pressing buttons outside your HOTAS feel time wasting.

Little bit OT, after reading this thread I'm considering to buy TM Cougar MFD. Do you guys think its worth it?

Thanks.

Little bit OT, after reading this thread I'm considering to buy TM Cougar MFD. Do you guys think its worth it?

 

Thanks.

It all depend of your setup and what you would prefer, if for example you want to go VR it will be useless/really challenging to press the right button.

The best way to use it would require you to plug a small USB monitor and attack it to it and export the aircraft MFD to it, otherwise this is easy to click one button away from the intended one by comparing the Cougar MFD to the aircraft MFD...

If you want to make a simplified home cockpit this is the way to go, but even with a really simple joystick or a big Hotas it can be good, it all depend on your tastes.

It all depend of your setup and what you would prefer, if for example you want to go VR it will be useless/really challenging to press the right button.

 

The best way to use it would require you to plug a small USB monitor and attack it to it and export the aircraft MFD to it, otherwise this is easy to click one button away from the intended one by comparing the Cougar MFD to the aircraft MFD...

 

If you want to make a simplified home cockpit this is the way to go, but even with a really simple joystick or a big Hotas it can be good, it all depend on your tastes.

Thanks for your input