The Gazelle and Cyclic input with a Joystick.

I appreciate you need to be fairly light on the controls, but it just didn’t feel right, like I said I’ve not flown her for a good yr or so, so I may just be extremely rusty, dispite flying the Huey most days.

Sadly I've never had stick time in the air with a rotary wing, especially not a Gazelle so I only have the word of pilots I've flown with, or the written word of those that flew Gazelles and helped work on this module.

I understand the flight-model for the SA342 has been revised recently, so reviews still up on Steam et al of around 2014 are probably stale, not sure how recent 'recent' is.

I'm unable to compare this module to the UH-1H either, but I am toying with that as a next purchase, so I'll bookmark this thread such that if I do; I can contribute to it with a comparison. I came straight into the SA342* about a month ago.

Sadly I've never had stick time in the air with a rotary wing, especially not a Gazelle so I only have the word of pilots I've flown with, or the written word of those that flew Gazelles and helped work on this module.

 

I understand the flight-model for the SA342 has been revised recently, so reviews still up on Steam et al of around 2014 are probably stale, not sure how recent 'recent' is.

 

I'm unable to compare this module to the UH-1H either, but I am toying with that as a next purchase, so I'll bookmark this thread such that if I do; I can contribute to it with a comparison. I came straight into the SA342* about a month ago.

If I recall, most of the major updates has happened in the last 4-5 months. So any review older than that may not be accurate anymore.

I appreciate that, sadly it’s one of the restrictions we simmers have to face. But what I mean is when I fly the Huey, the movement of the helo is a smooth motion even with my warthog setup. I don’t feel like I’m fighting with the sim so to speak.

 

With the Gazelle, I wasn’t able to get smooth motion whatsoever, i would pull back and instead of the nose coming up smoothly, nothing would happen and then it jumps up a bit, stops then jumps again, likewise turning left of right, nothing happens then it jumps a bit in the relevant direction, stops, then jumps again, rather than a smooth progressive roll, that you get in other modules.

 

I have no idea if it’s a bug, or the gazelle really does operate this way, although I would be surprised if it does.

 

I appreciate you need to be fairly light on the controls, but it just didn’t feel right, like I said I’ve not flown her for a good yr or so, so I may just be extremely rusty, dispite flying the Huey most days.

It may be a bug very few people mention such a condition, I had an issue which was sorted when I had to do a complete rebuild of OS and DCS sometime ago. not sure if that was DCS or the Gazelle or whatever.

To be honest the issue would likely be with your controls and the way you use them. The Huey, Mi8 and Gazelle have a similar feel and respond in a similar way. The difference for me is in the magnitude of the response for a given input and response time. For me the Gazelle feels similar to an R44 probably because I have modelled my controls to an R44 to a degree.

I guess I'm really pushing the issue I found with a typical joysick input and the amount of control that is masked by the mechanical detent and the electrical dead zone that I found in my joysick. The cyclic in an R44 is very light to move and very sensitive in it's assertion on the aircraft, the first time I hovered I can tell you I had bad PIO, I didn't expect it to be that sensitive and have as much authority as it does.

Do have a look at the video in the link I posted don't worry about my rubbish skills it's more to illustrate the amount of movement of the cyclic. It really is two fingers and thumb with wrist resting on my thigh* and in most cases a few milimeters of movement is all that is required for most everything. The magnitude of movement is a little more for Huey and Mi8 however it's more about putting a little correction in now and having the aircraft respond correctly a second or two or three latter rather than a lot of correction and an "immediate" response unless that is to avoid something.

Disclaimer! No I am not a pilot.

*When I used a joystick on the table I actually made a rest for my wrist so I could use two fingers and thumb for control.

FWIW I have about a 250mm extension and saturation at 100% and curves at 7% for the Gazelle, for various reasons it is possible to use curves on the Gazelle cyclic input but that's a whole other discussion.

Just to reiterate; once in flight and trim, you will feel resistance against the stick and rudder if presenting the control surfaces into airflow, so in that regard it might feel as if it's self-centring, if you're properly trimmed out; the aircraft (most GA) will settle back down into say straight and level if you pushed fore-aft on the stick for a bit and didn't alter the power; extreme attitude chances not-with-standing.

 

Though on some I've flown; they've no rudder or aileron trim, so you're always holding those in whatever manner required to maintain the desired attitude etc.

From my limited experience in an R44 I couldn't really perceive any difference in effort for small "corrections" or input movement on the cyclic between hover, climbing and cruising, descending etc.

I have not been flying Gazelle really since the month or two since release. It having back then a extremely sensitive attitude with FF cyclic with about 40cm extension. It liked really to flip around even from a slightest movement, where every other chopper used very nice big movements if wanted to do same thing.

Now I remembered that the update has brought the Minigun as was pointed at forum and installed Gazelle.

So first thing to spot was that it goes like on rail, it doesn't "float" in air nor have any similar feeling as Huey or KA-50 or Mi-8 has when you hover or you transition etc.

And this was done with a basic Thrustmaster TM16000 stick even without any axis adjustments.

Somewhat it is now reflecting the experience I would have expected from the start, it being so tiny and maneuverable helicopter (instead over sensitive rock on toothpick balancing) but it is now more like there is some kind friction holding it in air. Of course those could be AP channels what I don't remember anymore as I just slapped it in editor on air and jumped in.

Having the same issue as others have mentioned. No deadzone added, no deadzone issues is any other airframe. But in the gazelle - "nothing, nothing, nothing, sudden change, holds that attitude as though suspended in the air".

Any corrections results in the same response, so it's just holding certain angles, jerks to another one, holds it, on and on and on.

Makes precision flying impossible and is the sole reason why, as much as I love the Gazelle for its wide-view cockpit, its daring playstyle, and the spectacle of low altitude flying in VR, I simply cannot stand flying it anymore.

Having the same issue as others have mentioned. No deadzone added, no deadzone issues is any other airframe. But in the gazelle - "nothing, nothing, nothing, sudden change, holds that attitude as though suspended in the air".

 

Any corrections results in the same response, so it's just holding certain angles, jerks to another one, holds it, on and on and on.

 

Makes precision flying impossible and is the sole reason why, as much as I love the Gazelle for its wide-view cockpit, its daring playstyle, and the spectacle of low altitude flying in VR, I simply cannot stand flying it anymore.

More likely it's your input device which was the point of starting this thread as a joystick is way to limiting as a cyclic. From what I have seen the center detent and spring action and the built in dead zone that as far as I can tell most if not all joysticks have make for poor control of the Gazelle and other helis in general.

For the Gazelle try saturation down to as much as 70 for X and Y even add maybe 10 for curvature X and Y also stack a few books beside your joystick to support your wrist on. Like all helicopters less input is more control doubly so for the Gazelle. Precision flying is no problem for the Gazelle. :thumbup:

Just giving my observation in case it helps someone. I just started flying 2.5 and I also found the Gazelle cyclic behave strangely. With default curves for the axis I could move the stick (CH) almost 10 degrees and nothing would happen and then beyond that all of a sudden crazy things. So yeah, no matter what I did, no fine control was to be had. I still have Alpha 2.0 installed so I tested it there and it was butter smooth with same default axis settings. Then I looked other settings and under "Misc." I noticed that on 2.0 I had "Force feedback" checked. Not sure why but I never touched it. I checked on 2.5 and it was also enabled there so I unchecked it and voila! Heaven returned!

Now why it had no effect in 2.0 and why it messed things up for me in 2.5 I don't know. But once I turned it off things were smooth and now I could hold a smooth 500 fpm climb or descent or smooth turns. Give it a check and try. Now if I could just find a fix for those Robin Hood-like sniper tanks too... :D

Not addressing the Gazelle specifically because I no longer fly it. But regarding flight controls. Recently I started flying several helicopter models in X-Plane using the VR controllers only. Basically sitting in the middle of the room waiving my right hand in little circles. Believe it or not, this is by far the best input method I have ever used to fly helicopters. It is such a joy to be freed from the constraints of the small throw of a center sprung joystick. I have owned just about everything, including a pretty decent FFB stick (G940). None come close to the precision of moving your hands in free space. This information is useless for DCS. But who knows...maybe someday.

Not addressing the Gazelle specifically because I no longer fly it. But regarding flight controls. Recently I started flying several helicopter models in X-Plane using the VR controllers only. Basically sitting in the middle of the room waiving my right hand in little circles. Believe it or not, this is by far the best input method I have ever used to fly helicopters. It is such a joy to be freed from the constraints of the small throw of a center sprung joystick. I have owned just about everything, including a pretty decent FFB stick (G940). None come close to the precision of moving your hands in free space. This information is useless for DCS. But who knows...maybe someday.

Interesting thanks for sharing. :)

The reason I went down the simpit route was to get away from wrist killer table top joysticks and attempt to make it "more real" in VR, however I think I'd miss the "feel" of hands on controls.

Mmmm, just when did they say the holodeck is coming out? :D

Having the same issue as others have mentioned. No deadzone added, no deadzone issues is any other airframe. But in the gazelle - "nothing, nothing, nothing, sudden change, holds that attitude as though suspended in the air".

 

Any corrections results in the same response, so it's just holding certain angles, jerks to another one, holds it, on and on and on.

 

Makes precision flying impossible and is the sole reason why, as much as I love the Gazelle for its wide-view cockpit, its daring playstyle, and the spectacle of low altitude flying in VR, I simply cannot stand flying it anymore.

This is exactly what I'm seeing. I can see the control stick move in the cockpit and the control indicators move but until I reach a 50% deflection there's no actual input to the aircraft, then I reach 50%+ and the full control deflection is sent through.

I know people say they have to flight tha SAS but this can't be correct ?

(Note this is with a T1600 HOTAS with the axis setting at default, Deadzone 0, Saturation X & Y 100 and Curvature 0)

This is exactly what I'm seeing. I can see the control stick move in the cockpit and the control indicators move but until I reach a 50% deflection there's no actual input to the aircraft, then I reach 50%+ and the full control deflection is sent through.

 

I know people say they have to flight tha SAS but this can't be correct ?

 

(Note this is with a T1600 HOTAS with the axis setting at default, Deadzone 0, Saturation X & Y 100 and Curvature 0)

Did you unchecked the FFB option?

Did you unchecked the FFB option?

THAT'S IT !

Setting the FFB Pitch and Roll curves to 0 and suddenly the helicopter is flying the way I want/expect.

Thank you so much for that, it's been bugging me for weeks and I'd never have thought of that :)

THAT'S IT !

 

Setting the FFB Pitch and Roll curves to 0 and suddenly the helicopter is flying the way I want/expect.

 

Thank you so much for that, it's been bugging me for weeks and I'd never have thought of that :)

Call me your savior, just kiddin, is the most common problem with this module aahha

Call me your savior, just kiddin, is the most common problem with this module aahha

I'm clearly the most unobservant person in the world (my wife would probably agree with that) as I'd been check the forums for a solution !

Thanks again :)

I'm clearly the most unobservant person in the world (my wife would probably agree with that) as I'd been check the forums for a solution !

 

Thanks again :)

No prob, have fun with killing everything in front of you (just try not to team kill :lol::lol::lol:)

I'm clearly the most unobservant person in the world (my wife would probably agree with that) as I'd been check the forums for a solution !

 

 

 

Thanks again :)

If you still have a (very) small deadzone present as I and some other guys do, the first two posts in below thread gives two possible workarounds to make it feel smooth:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3792421